Astrology a SIn
#1
Astrology a kingly-priestly Sin

An unfortunate Saga from Astronomy to Astrology - Can we revive astronomy in our minds?
By the time we reach end of this article we shall witness that it’s a heinous crime to associate Astrology with Early India [who had scientific approach]. We shall see how Astronomy became Astrology. One should be proud of 28 stars they identified ranging from ashwini to revathi, lunar cycle & heliocentric theory to mention few were all science.

A teenager called Srinivas Ramanujan from a not so famous city Kumbakonam in 1900s arrived at Eulers formula eix= cos(x) + isin(x) by playing with math equations, which Euler had discovered 200 years ago. Yes Ramanujan was not even aware of Euler at that point. Why did this happen to a Nation that had discovered Pythagoras theorem when the people of west were still barbarians and Archimedes was yet not born.Aryabhata and varahamihira are the last know contributors, for centuries there was zeroachievement in the field of Astronomy. We had to wait for 25 centruies for a man of class C V Raman. Still we have not produced a man of class called Einstien.

Priestly onslaught: reason for Astronomy becoming substandard astrology in India:

Astronomy developed under the shade of enlightened saints called Rishis. In the guise of vedic rituals to build altars geometry, trigonometry etc developed. But soon were controlled by a selfish class of people called priests who were busy counting money earned by performing rituals. Knowledge remained with priest class, ah! from where a Rishi is to be born to carry the legacy. Rishis were frustrated with this priestly act and their thought process went inward. unquestioned Priests forgot science, they froze it and announced themselves there is nothing to be discovered further they became
ambassadors for Rahu,kethu, they ensured that people feared eclipse- a celestial class act, churned out beautiful stories to support them, learned people say you will find such stories only in puranas not in vedic scriptures. Priests coupled with Kings created an unhealthy environment for the development of science. Science requires space for objective analysis and thought process. Ah how could you think further on solar eclipse, it’s a sin, you can’t question rahu because purana say so. Lack of freedom for objective thinking [basic need for science] received severe hindrance by subjective sectional interests resulting in false praising and blind following of vedic karmas and citations. Astronomy[Khagola-vignyana or Jyotishya ] treats SUN as a star. Even now the Astrology[Phala jyotishya] call SUN as a planet. People of West were better as Galileo was just tortured, in India they ensured Galileo’s remained unborn.

kalaya tasmai namaha
They classified directions as auspicious and inauspicious. can you believe these people called astrologers classified time. They differentiated time as good and bad. Sanskrit Shloka says "kalaya tasmai namaha" which has a great meaning "Salutations to that great entity called TIME" but selfish astrologers mask this to instill fear among people, to take advantage of weak minds. All just for money. Poets have written loads and loads of poems on "Time" with great reverence. It’s disgusting to talk about such people...


Hindu Scriptures:
It’s a Blasphemy to believe in Astrology after reading the enlightened statements from some of Hindu scriptures.

Yogavasista lays down that what is not consistent with reason should not be accepted even if Brahma were to tell it. No human being is absolutely and perpetually blameless.[ Swami Sharvananda taittiriyopanishattu, p 68, 1956]
Charaka samhita's scientific voice says: "Any success obtained with lack of logic is just a coincidence" [ G T narayana Rao, “Srinivas Ramanujan Lived here”, P 185]
There is a famous Shloka in Sanskrit that says “ sarvam khalvidam brahmham”, now let me know from where did these planetary objects come in between.

Upanishads have declared “jnana yajna” is the best… but still no priest or Astrologer reveals this to us, either they are dumb fellows Or they are masking the bright words of self confidence and reasoning from common people with an Agenda. What is their agenda, it seems to control us. No two astrologers come to a consensus both in prediction and also in providing scientific justification for Astrology. Each one has his own hypothetical interpretations, as Yoga Vasista lays down, we should not believe in Astrology. It’s Astronomy what we should believe.


Further Reading for Interested keen readers:

Vivekananda and Buddha trash Astrology:

"It is the coward and the fool who says, 'This is fate'" — so says the Sanskrit proverb. But it is the strong man who stands up and says, "I will make my fate." It is people who are getting old who talk of fate. Young men generally do not come to astrology. We may be under planetary influence,but it should not matter much to us. Buddha says, "Those that get a living by calculation of the stars by such art and other lying tricks are to be avoided"; and he ought to know, because he was the greatest Hindu ever born. Let stars come, what harm is there? If a star disturbs my life, it would not be worth a cent. You will find that astrology and all these mystical things are generally signs of a weak mind; therefore as soon as they are becoming prominent in our minds, we should see a physician, take good food and rest. [Man the maker of his destiny - Vivekananda ]
I think the Greeks first took astrology to India and took from the Hindus the science of astronomy and carried it back with them from Europe [ Vivekananda ]

Shivarama karanth:
Astrologers predict both past and future. If even 25% of their statements about your past are true. You shall believe the future he predicts with 250% trust. If one notes down all these and checks after 20-25 years, he would be convinced that predictions were mere predictions.[ Mookajjiya kanasugaLu ]

Basavanna-english:

Say It’s auspicious when minds agree
Say Zodiacs have already approved the bondage
Say Moon and stars are arrayed already
Say today is better than tomorrow [ basavanna vachana ]

ಎಮ್ಮವರು ಬೆಸಗೊಂಡಡೆ ಶುಭಲಗ್ನವೆನ್ನಿರಯ್ಯಾ
ರಾಶಿಕೂಟ ಋಣಸಂಬಂಧವುಂಟೆಂದು ಹೇಳಿರಯ್ಯಾ
ಚಂದ್ರಬಲ ತಾರಾಬಲವುಂಟೆಂದು ಹೇಳಿರಯ್ಯಾ
ನಾಳಿನ ದಿನಕಿಂದಿನ ದಿನ ಲೇಸೆಂದು ಹೇಳಿರಯ್ಯಾ
ಕೂಡಲಸಂಗಮದೇವನ ಪೂಜಿಸಿದ ಫಲ ನಿಮ್ಮದಯ್ಯಾ!
- ಜಗಜ್ಯೋತಿ ಬಸವಣ್ಣ


DVG-english: [1]

Can astrologer correct the planetary rhythm with a horoscope?
Position and Movements are fine universe thy steering
Unless Embraced tolerance,clinging phase persists
Patience is the solid armour – DumbChap [Mankutimma] || [ #366, mankutimmana kagga]


ಗ್ರಹಗತಿಯ ತಿದ್ದುವನೆ ಜೋಯಿಸನು ಜಾತಕದಿ ?
ವಿಹಿತವಾಗಿಹುದದರ ಗತಿ ಸೃಷ್ಟಿವಿಧಿಯಿಂ
ಸಹಿಸದಲ್ಲದೆ ಮುಗಿಯದಾವ ದಶೆ ಬಂದೊಡಂ |
ಸಹನೆ ವಜ್ರದ ಕವಚ - ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ ||

Kuvempu , [Sri Kuvempu]:
Echoes Vivekananda and says its “ it’s a sordid game of people who wanted to earn their lively hood in a easy manner, donot believe them”. He opines that when Astrologers made it a profession, astronomy declined. [ he says “hotte horeyuva vidye” ].

Thiru Gjnaana Sambandar, Saivite Saint: [ Source ]

A Saivite Saint Thiru Gjnaana Sambandar sings in Thevaaram:-

"Naazh En Seyum--Kozh en seyum"=What stars,planets, good or bad days can do on me ?
"Kumaresan Thaalum,Tholum,Sadhngaiyum en Munnay Thondridinay"=if Lord Muruga's feet, shoulders and His ankle jewels come before my eyes ?

What Great Modern Indian Scientists say: [ Source ]

Gautham -- Most consult an astrologer if pressed, so struggle is futile.
Balasundaram -- Tests of astrology are indecisive, it needs demystifying.
Tiwari -- Vedic = beyond sensory experience. How can Vedic be science?
Gupta -- Astrology may be a science-like knowledge but more difficult.
Mandal -- We either accept astrology and reject evolution, or the reverse.
Ganeshaiah -- Issue is nonsense vs good information, not arts vs sciences.
Abhyankar -- Astrologers offer only therapy by talking. Why be fooled?
Narlikar (review of Astrology: Believe it or not?) -- Not! Recommended!
Sitaraman -- Science not threatened by Vedic astrology or any other.


Conclusion:
Why do you spoil the celestial show
By Inducing planetary fear,
Spectator you are
Universe is waiting for your applause
[Srikgn]

We are unaware of fate
Rationality is our heartbeat
O Astrologer pack your bags
Market the fear else where
After all It is Sublime Nature
[Srikgn]

Trust No Future, how ever pleasant
Let the dear past bury its dead
Act-act in the living present!
Heart within, and God o’erhead [ H W Longfellow , "A psalm of Life]
Great numbers of Galaxies are being found. We are able to witness farther and farther Celestial dance. It would be very novice to believe that only solar system will have an effect on human beings. Modern authors of India and visionaries like Vivekananda have discarded astrology by terming it as a sordid game of priests who enforced it on people so that they can earn their livelihood.

"Past is misery, Future is mystery, present is pleasant" this is the trick used by astrologers.They succeed when we miss the present pleasant trick

I thank for people who created these 2 Images .
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#2
While I agree that astrology is bull, I see a cause for concern in some statements in what you have written:

Quote:Why did this happen to a Nation that had discovered Pythagoras theorem when the people of west were still barbarians and Archimedes was yet not born.

This is a sounds like a Hindu nationalist sentiment which believes that ancient India was all about culture and the rest of the world was about mumbling troglodytes. Such views create unnecessary divisions in human achievements and what is even more bad is, it is based on falsehoods.

The next bit of concern is your use of a broad definition of Hinduism that is a distraction as far as our goals here are concerned, that is promoting science and freethought. Hinduism is a recent phenomenon:

Quote:Hinduism is a meaningless religious label. It is not an ancient philosophy that originated in India. In fact, the word Hindu is not even an Indian word. It is a superficial group identity that was concocted relatively late in the history of India. Rather than being the unified philosophy or way of thought that it masquerades to be, Hinduism is a semantic impediment to the natural evolution of cultural knowledge in India.

And then

Quote:It’s a Blasphemy to believe in Astrology after reading the enlightened statements from some of Hindu scriptures.

There really is no good reason to still cling onto the Hindu label when it leads to contradictions, even when going by your definition. Yoga Vasista, for example, contains plenty of unscientific ideas (and hence un-enlightened). Same goes for Vivekananda. While he may have dissed astrology, his works by and large are an impediment to objective thinking. For example he had this to say about science's inability to find evidence for the magical claims of Raja Yoga:

Quote:It is not the sign of a candid and scientific mind to throw overboard anything without proper investigation. Surface scientists, unable to explain various extraordinary mental phenomena, strive to ignore their very existence.

I find it ironical that the alacrity in your criticism of the priests is absent when it comes to Yoga Vashista or Vivekananda. While it is true that they give the customary exhortations to have an open mind and to strive for "true knowledge", when they are presented with a process, the best process we have evolved so far to, gain such knowledge, it elicits the kind of the reactions as shown in the quote of Vivekanada above.

There is no denying that the scriptures and philosophical works of ancient India are of great historical interest much like with the work of the Greeks. However, there is no one who is trying to spread the Greek religions, their various irrational and unscientific beliefs. So when a Greek work is cited, it is with the near universal implicit assumption that "there is quite a bit of nonsense in there, but here is something of interest". However when it comes to the label "Hindu", there are no such implicit assumptions. Of all the people who call themselves Hindus, a majority believe in the irrational and the unscientific. So an unconditional use of the Hindu label is unwarranted.
[+] 4 users Like Lije's post
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#3
Shall be cautious when using the term Hindu and will not generalize it. Thanks.

a) I agree with you "Pythagoras theorem..." it sounded as a Hindu national sentiment. There is an air of sarcasm in the following lines.."We had to wait for 25 centruies for a man of class C V Raman. Still we have not produced a man of class called Einstien".
I expect readers (atleast Nirmukta smile ) understood subtle way of condemning....

b) Your comment on vivekananda [not bcos of vivekananda is condemned] shook my Idea of Rationalism.

Rationalism and and Science are just 2 beautiful words coined. These are very misleading. People misunderstand and try to apply popular laws of science[ Laws of physics, chemistry etc] they know and or compare statements and theories.
In addition they apply their reason and logic forgetting their limited exposure and ability to comment and flaunt themselves rational. As one of my friend says " Lot of people get jobs like flower decoration, cleaning, hall maintainance .. in lavish marriages. So according to him Lavish marriages are fine".
But at the same time he forgets that jobs are temporary in nature etc...

The basis of science and rationalism is Scientific thinking. The crux is the thought process.It is this thought process that has driven succesful civilisations. If the thought process is acceptable and his conclusions are wrong, then still we can respect the person who emitted it.It could so happen that one can arrive at unexpected or wrong results just as in the case of Edison who failed 9999 times.
Now lets see what is the basis of this Scientific thinking. To Question, Intution, Imagination and Logic.. these are the pillars which determine the strength of the thought process of a human being connected by a invaluable string rope called Experience.
Each civilisation has contributed in the flow of time and instilled a faith. The forthcoming civilisation has questioned it applied the pillars of thought process. Few stood, remaining got shattered.
I feel its a false assumption that philosphy/religion is bull shit and ask it to be kept away. If one's philosophy or religion is based on scientific thinking, give it a space. Lets not murder it. Lets leave it to the future generation in whose hands shall it remain or get destroyed.

In the modern era Vivekananda was one such person who questioned and gave a call to the world to question every belief. He told

"West should learn the inward thought process from East, and East should learn the science".

What more alacrity embraced with fire do we want when he said
"Do not run after these superstitions. Better for you and for the race that you become rank atheists, because you would have strength, but these are degradation and death. Shame on humanity that strong men should spend their time on these superstitions, spend all their time in inventing allegories to explain the most rotten superstitions of the world. Be bold; do not try to explain everything that way"

Fire would catch fire after listening to this, alas my country men still dumb and failed to realise his statement
"For the next fifty years this alone shall be our keynote — this, our great Mother India. Let all other vain gods disappear for the time from our minds"

Tell me which law of science has spoke these words of Vivekananda
"Bread! Bread! I do not believe in a God, who cannot give me bread here, giving me eternal bliss in heaven! Pooh! India is to be raised, the poor are to be fed, education is to be spread, and the evil of priestcraft is to be removed. No priestcraft, no social tyranny! More bread, more opportunity for everybody! "

What more rationalism can we expect from a man when he[Vivekananda] says this
"No man is born to any religion; he has a religion in his own soul. let there be as many religions as there are human beings".

I have never come across any man making a statement in such bold manner in the whole of human race....

Dear Sir, Elsewhere i have seen you countering Vivekanandas following quote:-

"Science is nothing but the finding of unity. As soon as science would reach perfect unity, it would stop from further progress, because it would reach the goal. Thus Chemistry could not progress farther when it would discover one element out of which all other could be made. Physics would stop when it would be able to fulfill its services in discovering one energy of which all others are but manifestations ... All science is bound to come to this conclusion in the long run."

Below excerpt by Alexis Carrel seems to indicate Science of nature and hence science of man can only be triumphant when all science meets...

"The science of man makes use of all other sciences. This is one of the reasons for its slow progress and its difficulty. For example, in order to study the influence of a psychological factor on a sensitive individual, the methods of medicine, physiology, physics, and chemistry have to be employed [ p 53, The Man Unknown ]"

c)
Creativity:-
Scientific Thinking which lacks creativity is detrimental as explained by Alexis carrel below

"In the history of humanity, the expression of all our fundamental activities can be read at a single glance. In addition to positive observations, to sure facts, there are many things neither positive nor indubitable. They should not be rejected. Of course, operational concepts are the only foundation upon which science can be solidly built. But creative imagination alone is capable of inspiring conjectures and dreams pregnant with the worlds of the future. We must continue asking questions which, from the point of view of sound, scientific criticism, are meaningless. And even if we tried to prevent our mind from pursuing the impossible and the unknowable, such an effort would be vain. Curiosity is a necessity of our nature, a blind impulse that obeys no rule. Our mind turns around all external objects and penetrates within the depths of ourselves"

d)
holistic approach:-
I conclude that as long as a person has his thought process right, if even 80% of his thoughts are rational. We can respect such a man because he is an asset to humanity. Respect should not mean blind following. We can discard his other thoughts.

e)

"It is not the sign of a candid and scientific mind to throw overboard anything without proper investigation. Surface scientists, unable to explain various extraordinary mental phenomena, strive to ignore their very existence."
---->
"Important facts may be completely ignored. Our mind has a natural tendency to reject the things that do not fit into the frame of the scientific or philosophical beliefs of our time. After all, scientists are only men. They are saturated with the prejudices of their environment and of their epoch. They willingly believe that facts that cannot be explained by current theories do not exist. During the period when physiology was identified with physical chemistry, the period of Jacques Loeb
and of Bayliss, the study of mental functions was neglected. No one was interested in psychology and in mind disorders. At the present time, scientists who are concerned solely in the physical, chemical, and physicochemical aspects of physiological processes still look upon telepathy and other metapsychical phenomena as illusions. Evident facts having an unorthodox
appearance are suppressed" [ Alexis carrel ]


f) Darwins Evolution theory also has flaws..., but it is resposible for one of the most wonderful interpretations of human race....

People with great ability like Darwin, Einstein, Vivekananda etc putforth theories rather than laws out of their sheer creativity,imagination, experience, intution and Logic. Theories hold a greater sway but still remains suspect until disproved. Hence lets evovle with a holistic approach rather sitting and disproving their individual statements.

I am ending with a beautiful poem from Tagore on holistic:-

"
When the creation was new and all the stars shone in their first splendour, the gods held their assembly in the sky and sang `Oh, the picture of perfection! the joy unalloyed!'

But one cried of a sudden---`It seems that somewhere there is a break in the chain of light and one of the stars has been lost.'

The golden string of their harp snapped, their song stopped, and they cried in dismay---`Yes, that lost star was the best, she was the glory of all heavens!'

From that day the search is unceasing for her, and the cry goes on from one to the other that in her the world has lost its one joy!

Only in the deepest silence of night the stars smile and whisper among themselves---`Vain is this seeking! unbroken perfection is over all!'
"
Reply
#4
You went into a long discourse on what science is which is unnecessary. You are new to the forums. So please take the time to understand what views the members of the forum subscribe. I took the time to read your blog posts and only pointed out what Nirmukta's stance is on some things.

But I will reiterate a point I made because you seem to have missed it.

You think astrology is nonsense, but yet give a pass to someone like Vivekananda who supported equally stupid ideas like Karma which are central to his worldview. I just found it ironical that you think astrology was the work of priests but fail to see the sort of thinking that is common to both priests and "visionaries" that leads to propagation of ideas like astrology. So, just because Vivekananda said something against astrology doesn't make him some sort of visionary on scientific thinking. He is quite far from it. But that is a digression. You can find some threads here on why.

Please read the forum rules, acquaint yourself with the various forums especially the ones on Hinduism, Pseudoscience & Superstition, Natural Sciences & Mathematics and Naturalism & Philosophy of Science
Reply
#5
(11-Sep-2011, 09:09 PM)Lije Wrote: While I agree that astrology is bull, I see a cause for concern in some statements in what you have written:

Quote:Why did this happen to a Nation that had discovered Pythagoras theorem when the people of west were still barbarians and Archimedes was yet not born.

This is a sounds like a Hindu nationalist sentiment which believes that ancient India was all about culture and the rest of the world was about mumbling troglodytes. Such views create unnecessary divisions in human achievements and what is even more bad is, it is based on falsehoods.

The next bit of concern is your use of a broad definition of Hinduism that is a distraction as far as our goals here are concerned, that is promoting science and freethought. Hinduism is a recent phenomenon:

Quote:Hinduism is a meaningless religious label. It is not an ancient philosophy that originated in India. In fact, the word Hindu is not even an Indian word. It is a superficial group identity that was concocted relatively late in the history of India. Rather than being the unified philosophy or way of thought that it masquerades to be, Hinduism is a semantic impediment to the natural evolution of cultural knowledge in India.

And then

Quote:It’s a Blasphemy to believe in Astrology after reading the enlightened statements from some of Hindu scriptures.

There really is no good reason to still cling onto the Hindu label when it leads to contradictions, even when going by your definition. Yoga Vasista, for example, contains plenty of unscientific ideas (and hence un-enlightened). Same goes for Vivekananda. While he may have dissed astrology, his works by and large are an impediment to objective thinking. For example he had this to say about science's inability to find evidence for the magical claims of Raja Yoga:

Quote:It is not the sign of a candid and scientific mind to throw overboard anything without proper investigation. Surface scientists, unable to explain various extraordinary mental phenomena, strive to ignore their very existence.

I find it ironical that the alacrity in your criticism of the priests is absent when it comes to Yoga Vashista or Vivekananda. While it is true that they give the customary exhortations to have an open mind and to strive for "true knowledge", when they are presented with a process, the best process we have evolved so far to, gain such knowledge, it elicits the kind of the reactions as shown in the quote of Vivekanada above.

There is no denying that the scriptures and philosophical works of ancient India are of great historical interest much like with the work of the Greeks. However, there is no one who is trying to spread the Greek religions, their various irrational and unscientific beliefs. So when a Greek work is cited, it is with the near universal implicit assumption that "there is quite a bit of nonsense in there, but here is something of interest". However when it comes to the label "Hindu", there are no such implicit assumptions. Of all the people who call themselves Hindus, a majority believe in the irrational and the unscientific. So an unconditional use of the Hindu label is unwarranted.

To be honest I agree with you!
Reply
#6
I have already accepted the comments of Lije and apologised for certain remarks of mine openly in this forum.
But....

Then you ought to screw the respected authors in here who invariably think/quote Upanishads as weapon against priestly atrocities. Ofcourse we can question and show flaws in upanishads too and there by screw the cream authors of this forum.
But the intention of authors there was to show that Upanishads to some extent tried to question priestly class thus scientific in its own way or could be simply presentation of history. Just because one has witnessed flaws in Upanishads need not show his trivial knowledge by replying in such agitated manner without understanding the spirit of the writing.

Let us not stay behind Immanuel Kant come out with him and see ahead of him.
Lets appreciate where things confluence and at the same time be a critic.

Anyway congrats but please read local literature ( be it tamil, kannada etc...), understand history, and then read your fav foreign authors.
Then like periyar you can put garland made out of footware on the statue of God, i would salute you. Then like basavanna if you screw Vedas i would salute you. Then like buddha who revolted against shastras and karmakhanda..i would salute you.

Comments on Vivekananda are laughable... this just shows one is believing in the image of vivekananda created by priestly class... hahahah..they say he is a hindu saint.....



Reply
#7
(12-Mar-2012, 10:11 AM)srikgn Wrote: Ofcourse we can question and show flaws in upanishads too and there by screw the cream authors of this forum.
But the intention of authors there was to show that Upanishads to some extent tried to question priestly class thus scientific in its own way or could be simply presentation of history.

A thread devoted to critiques of the Upanishadic worldview can be found here. As for the supposed compatibility of this view with Science, that is discussed threadbare in this closed oversize thread. In any case, in keeping with the principle of attacking ideas and not people, it would be advisable to direct objections at specific statements made, rather than at forum authors who supposedly made them.

(12-Mar-2012, 10:11 AM)srikgn Wrote: Let us not stay behind Immanuel Kant come out with him and see ahead of him.
Lets appreciate where things confluence and at the same time be a critic.

To think that there is an inordinate focus on Kantian framework here, in isolation of other theoretical frameworks, is an unwarranted conclusion. For instance, in this thread on human rights, the Kantian position is viewed in context with other indigenous schools of thought and examined for its own merits.

(12-Mar-2012, 10:11 AM)srikgn Wrote: Anyway congrats but please read local literature ( be it tamil, kannada etc...), understand history, and then read your fav foreign authors.

There is an obvious need for removing linguistic barriers in two-way communication between the vernacular and Anglophone worlds, and this has been acknowledged often in these very forums. Besides, there are regional subforums here where regional-language posts can be shared and translated. Attempts to foster such genuine multilingual communication via translation is more than welcome here. You would appreciate however that any such suggestions for the community can be more calmly considered and more likely to be implemented, if not expressed as part of an aggrieved outburst.


Reply
#8
(12-Mar-2012, 10:11 AM)srikgn Wrote: I have already accepted the comments of Lije and apologised for certain remarks of mine openly in this forum.
But....

There are apologies and then there are fake apologies made for the sake of convience or for political reasons.

(12-Mar-2012, 10:11 AM)srikgn Wrote: Then you ought to screw the respected authors in here who invariably think/quote Upanishads as weapon against priestly atrocities. Ofcourse we can question and show flaws in upanishads too and there by screw the cream authors of this forum.
But the intention of authors there was to show that Upanishads to some extent tried to question priestly class thus scientific in its own way or could be simply presentation of history. Just because one has witnessed flaws in Upanishads need not show his trivial knowledge by replying in such agitated manner without understanding the spirit of the writing.

You are just venting your bias against people here who haven't whole heartedly agreed with your views. You'd know why if you take the time to read this entire series.

(12-Mar-2012, 10:11 AM)srikgn Wrote: Comments on Vivekananda are laughable... this just shows one is believing in the image of vivekananda created by priestly class... hahahah..they say he is a hindu saint.....

Karma is nonsense. If you can show me that Vivekananda didn't rely on that concept, I'd gladly agree that my comments on Vivekananda are laughable.
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