Burqa bans. What do you think about it?
(03-May-2010, 09:35 PM)Lije Wrote: On a side note, I think the ban on burqa may result in muslim women being house arrested given how rabidly most muslims follow the Quran.
Yes, this probably is the only reason for not banning the burkha in a country like India (apart from the fact that our government is semi-civilized).

(03-May-2010, 11:40 PM)palaeo Wrote: And I wouldn't post atheist stickers on my work station, nor would I wear an atheist t-shirt to work.

Well, in my opinion, you can still wear an atheist T-shirt to work. It's a personal choice and not dictated by an atheist scripture. If one is not a Muslim woman she can wear the burkha and go out. It's again a personal choice.
Isn't it a shame that we have a woman, that covers her head, as the head of our state? She is still carrying forward a primitive tradition of her community.
1. These body bags represent subjugation even if women who wear them support it. To understand why some women who wear it support it, read up on "stockholm syndrome", as suggested by Faheem elsewhere.

2. I do not support this ban. There is one simple reason for this: once the ban is in place, the husbands and other family members of these women will forbid them from stepping out. It will become worse for these women.

A better solution would be am awareness drive that women are provided safety by the police, that women won't just be raped and molested for not having the body bag, that some common sense precautions can be taken by women for safety (like carrying pepper spray), that the Koran does not require that women year this, etc. And then, hotlines should be provided and protection under law can be provided to any women to report if they are being forced to wear it by family.
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(03-May-2010, 11:47 PM)palaeo Wrote: Yup yup. I once knew a girl in school who wore a head scarf. We were both around 9 years old. I asked her why she wore a scarf and she gave me some weird explanation about how hair attracts men and that if she showed off her hair in public she would get undue attention. All I could think at that age was, "What the hell is she talking about?!"
Sexuality is a strange and complicated thing, and to make a CHILD feel guilty about their HAIR is sick to me.

Half the girls in my class (FYBA, all about 17-18 y/o age) wear the burqa, with some even veiling the face. Not to mention half of those are engaged. Wish I wasn't so anti-social, might've spoken to them about these things and would've had something more to chip in but just wanted to say I know exactly how sick you felt.

(03-May-2010, 11:47 PM)palaeo Wrote: I hate the argument that women who are "exposed" would cause men to sin with their minds and bodies. I want to crush bones when I hear that. Talk about misplaced blame.

Worse still, when this argument comes in against "Western clothing" from "cultured women" sporting saris. You don't sport the sari -- the most sensual attire in the world -- and then make sick pronouncements about women who sport "Western clothing." That's just plain f'ing hilarious.
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(04-May-2010, 11:38 AM)manju Wrote: Isn't it a shame that we have a woman, that covers her head, as the head of our state? She is still carrying forward a primitive tradition of her community.

True! It's a shame indeed. Very primitive. It's a symbol of the suppression of women in the past and even today. We should have had a progressive woman as prez.
(05-May-2010, 12:11 PM)siddharth Wrote: 2. I do not support this ban. There is one simple reason for this: once the ban is in place, the husbands and other family members of these women will forbid them from stepping out. It will become worse for these women.

Police fine Italian woman for wearing Burqa:

Quote:The woman’s husband, Ben Salah Braim, has said that he must now keep his wife at home because the Koran states that no man must look at her face in public and has no idea how he will afford the 500 Euro fine.
I do not support the ban. If Belgium does not want masked people in public places due to security reasons, then they could inform through media. If a country grants religious freedom then it extends to all.
The burkha-clad women are victims - trapped between 'male-made religion' and the state laws. It is more relevant to find out whether these women have the freedom to study and work.
There's not much use in treating the symptom and not the disease.

Actually, it's hilarious that humans invented clothing and then we want to enforce what one should wear and not wear.
The bill had been moved by the leader of the rightist Christian Democratic Party Fred Nile, who had called for banning burqa citing security reasons and to what he called "set women free from domination of males."

"We must do all we can to protect women, especially Muslim women, from discrimination and oppression so they live an open lifestyle," Nile said, adding "The wearing of the burqa is a form of oppression which has no place in the 21st century."

"It also presented a security risk," he said. Nile introduced a similar bill in 2006 and 2002, prompting widespread condemnation.

Muslims constitute only 1.7 per cent of Australia's population of 22 million and religious tensions have run high in recent years.

I am opposed to the Burqa ban because a fairly informed Islamic woman might really want to wear it. There are many such Islamic women living in Western societies.

We would prefer to try to help those who are coerced into wearing it, and those who are misinformed and consenting to wear it. I am guessing that the Indian Penal Code has provisions to punish those who try to force religious practices on others. This law can be invoked to protect Islamic women from coercion to wear the Burqa. The misinformation or rather brain washing is the harder problem. It can be said to be the core of the problems with Islam and its conflict with rationalism. I can only think of an improved school education emphasizing science to combat this. Considering the current state of education in India of course, hoping for improvement in quality is a very very very long way off.
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I still don't know what I feel about the burqa bans. But I do feel that not much can be done because of the way religious families are so iron-clad in their rules and regulations. Families have such a deep influence on how open minded we are. Changing that is going to take a lot of time and effort.
Quote:In fact, the less I see my own body as a positive asset, the less I have wanted to interfere with what other women choose to do with theirs. If they want to parade in bikinis or shroud themselves in burkas, then so be it. I can see the pleasure in both.

To accuse them - as I used to do - of being the victims of social or commercial or religious control now seems to me to be a fairly cheap hit. How we present ourselves to the world is never a free choice. For both women and men dress is always the subject of social constraints.

Manju Vadiarillat
For a non Muslim, the burqa symbolizes the oppression of women, from men, society and religion. Now whether burqa is cultural or religious is a matter of doubt. Even many women in Muslim countries like Pakistan don't wear burqa. So it must have been more towards cultural.

Religion must evolve ( even if it doesn't support evolution Wink ). Like the extreme of Sati or devdasi(?) or untouchablilty(?) are uprooted by the law of the country. Banning Burqa is good, but having said that, the freedom of expression of religion is important. How do we distinguish between religion and culture is matter of debate.
Does "freedom of religion" also cover the cultural freedom? Can we abolish the social practices in the name of law? Like child marriages in India?
Often it is found that people seek cover-up of bad practices in the name of religion. So does law and society has enough power and will to go against religious texts?

Burqa ban is no reason for feminist to cheer. The reason touted for the ban is security and not religious. Had there is no terrorist threat to France or Belgium then the ban would not have been enforced.

Eventually, if we evolve towards the more balanced society then Burqa will die its eventual death. Banning on Burqa will be remembered as the first bold step towards it.

For the matter of fact, I found that Indian Sari is most constraining clothing for Indian women. Can we have some opinion on that?
Indians today are governed by two different ideologies. Their political ideal set in the preamble of the Constitution affirms a life of liberty, equality and fraternity. Their social ideal embodied in their religion denies them. - Ambedkar

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