Dravidian Nationalism

[Cityboy]

(23-Jan-2013, 10:43 AM)stupidseeker Wrote: If this is true then why do the navodaya schools insist on teaching hindi in regions where it is not as widely spoken ?

I agree that Hindi is also a regional language - just that it happens to be the largest one, with the second largest one quite far away from it, where largest is number of native speakers. So it is one of the official languages of GoI, the other one being English. English was included as an official language to assuage the concerns of non-Hindi speaking people.

Navodaya schools being GoI funded (except for land that State Govt is expected to provide) therefore teach Hindi and English, but they dont stop there - they also teach a third language even in the Hindi belt.

(23-Jan-2013, 10:43 AM)stupidseeker Wrote: And what is wrong with the two language formula that envirovivek proposed i.e the local language along with English ??

My view is that schools with one language formula are also kosher - parents that want their children to learn just one language will send their children to these schools. Similarly, two language formula schools are also kosher. What is not kosher is "There shall be no 3 language formula schools in my State"

(23-Jan-2013, 10:43 AM)stupidseeker Wrote: Can anyone tell me which three languages will be taught in a navodaya school in a state in the cowbelt e.g Uttar Pradesh and one in southern India, say Tamill nadu ??

My understanding is that in the Hindi belt, the three languages are English, Hindi and a non-Hindi Indian language - the non-Hindi language may differ from school to school.

(23-Jan-2013, 10:43 AM)stupidseeker Wrote: And why is there an insistence that prospective students clear a hindi entrance exam to get admission to these schools as envirovivek mentioned above ??

Beyond envirovivek's claim, I see no evidence to back it up. On the contrary, the contents of the admission prospectus at

http://www.navodaya.nic.in/welcome%20sbs.htm

are not consistent with envirovivek's claim. I quote from the admission prospectus refered to above:

Quote: 2. Language of the Examination

The language/medium of the examination for the candidate will be the medium through which the candidate is studying in Class-V.

A candidate will be given a test booklet in the language he/she has mentioned in the application form and admit card. It must be ensured that Same Medium of Examination/Language is written in the Application Form (Col.10) and Admit Card (Col.1). The test booklet is available in the following languages:

1. Assamese 2. Bengali 3. Bodo
4. English 5. Garo 6. Gujarati
7. Hindi 8. Kannada 9. Khasi
10. Malayalam 11. Manipuri 12. Marathi
13. Mizo 14. Oriya 15. Punjabi
16. Sindhi (Arabic) 17. Sindhi (Devnagri) 18. Tamil
19. Telugu 20. Urdu 21. Nepali

[Captain Mandrake]

Here is the mission statement ( http://www.navodaya.gov.in/welcome%20sbs.htm ) of Navodaya School

Quote:Objectives of Scheme
to provide good quality modern education to the talented children predominently from the rural areas, without regard to their family's socio-economic condition.
to ensure that all students of Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalayas attain a reasonable level of competence in three languages as envisaged in the Three Language Formula.
to serve, in each district, as focal points for improvements in quality of school education in general through sharing of experiences and facilities.

Why are we so focused on what the three languages are when the Navodaya is designed to achieve a lot more (eg. quality educational access to kids in rural areas)?

I still do not get what is the problem with teaching Hindi (even as a mandatory language). The Navodaya's modest target is that kids get a reasonable level of competence in languages. The Hindi opponents make it sound as if kids are being indoctrinated in an ideology like communism.

[kumarbala]

(23-Jan-2013, 11:22 AM)Captain Mandrake Wrote: I still do not get what is the problem with teaching Hindi (even as a mandatory language). The Navodaya's modest target is that kids get a reasonable level of competence in languages. The Hindi opponents make it sound as if kids are being indoctrinated in an ideology like communism.

I understand your frustration. Having a common language would make life a lot easier. But I am one of the few who vehemently oppose mandatory language requirements for state and central schools.

Creating a common language is good. But at what cost? German being the most commonly spoken language in EU is not the only official language of EU. The core of this problem in India goes towards addressing this issue, are we a federal republic? If so, what are the rights of these federal states? Language being a key part of the identity of each state, we cannot dictate which one language should be the lingua franca.

I am a bit even further on the left on this issue. Federal republic is a wrong option for us. I think we need to go further beyond federal republic and move towards a Swiss model - a collection of cantons. Each states with its own ability to decide on tax rates, social spending, immigration etc. Some of the states are progressing faster than others. So they should be given the freedom to move beyond the collective growth rate. Option 1: Do we have a uniformly miserable 1.2 billion people? or Option 2: few extremely progressive, wealthy productive states and few poor, backwards and repressive states. I am someone who would opt for option 2.

Now going back to the question of an Indian lingua franca, constitution is there to protect the rights of minority over the mob rule. Just because 51% of people feel certain way doesn't make it right to force the 49% to tow the line. The same argument holds for 99 to 1 or less. If you do believe having a lingua franca would be a good idea, then you can do that by demonstrating that there is value in learning that lingua franca. Say for e.g., if learning Gujarati would it easy to do business in Gujarat, people would start learning Gujarati. If learning Tamil would make it easy for people to do business in TN, people would learn Tamil.

So one could promote Hindi, by promoting the quality of life, social justice, business opportunities and improved living standards, gender rights, minority rights, freedom of speech in Hindi speaking states. People would then naturally start learning Hindi. But if those states cant compete against states like Gujarat or TN or Kerala or Karnataka or AP in the above mentioned qualities, don't you think it would be immoral to force people to learn a language that would not improve their living standards and their ability to pursue happiness?

[kumarbala]

(23-Jan-2013, 11:07 AM)Cityboy Wrote: Navodaya schools being GoI funded (except for land that State Govt is expected to provide) therefore teach Hindi and English, but they dont stop there - they also teach a third language even in the Hindi belt.

But why Hindi & English? I understand that they are the two "Languages with official status in India"

Shouldn't it be something similar to this?

English + (another language) + (third language)
Hindi + (another language) + (third language)
One of the other official regional language* + (another language) + (third language)

After all, we all pay our taxes and the GoI gets its fund from people who speak varied languages and from people who cant speak at all. Shouldn't the role of the government be to protect every group that contributes to its existence?

* Official regional language - As guaranteed bu the Constitution of India, http://lawmin.nic.in/coi/coiason29july08.pdf

[someone]

I believe Dravidian Nationalism is an utter disgrace to Intelligence to Mankind.

The Dravidians(i.e; South Indians) claim a civilization of their own. Firstly let me not go into the historicity of the facts of this question - i shall though come to the later assessment of the truth of this statement but firstly let me ask the folks as to how intelligent is this question of a Dravidian nation?.

You are building a nation on the basis of Race (i.e; South Indians). The only nation today that runs on race is Israel and they have had reasons for that (continuous persecution for 5000 years). Have the south Indians been persecuted by someone else for 5000 years?. The entire question is a joke.

Secondly - there is no racial difference between the Lower Castes of North India (OBC and Dalits/Tribals) and the South Indians. They are all of the same DNA and the same ethnicity - the only difference being the skin color due to the environmental and climatic differences. If you do not believe me you can take a DNA sample of Laloo Yadav, Mulayam or Mayawati and compare it with any person in Tamil Nadu. They would match 100%. 

In fact - 90% of the country's population are of the same race. Except the Brahmins and probably the Khatri caste and Rajputs - all the other people in the country are the same. 

Thirdly is the Dravidian country ever possible?. Do you see a semblance of Unity among the different South Indians - Like between Tamilians and the Kannada people?. Or between the Telugu and the Tamil people?. Or between the Malayalis and the Telugu people or Kannada people?. They all utterly hate each other though there is a semblance of cooperation - primarily an opportunistic reason - otherwise each people of their state form a community of their own.
First build a strong united forum among yourself before even asking this question. OH and I forgot the Caste differences.

Fourthly coming back to the original discussion - The Dravidian civilization. Did the dravidian people ever had a civilization?. The question is highly debatable. 

We do know that the Brahmins founded the Vedic civilization - we have scriptures and archeological evidences for that.
We do know that the Khatri caste and other kshatriyas had their own distinct civilization - namely Buddhism and the Jain religion which does survive till this day (apart from Sikhism).

Did the Dravidian civilization ever exist?. Did it have a distinct religion?. Yes language namely Tamil script may be true but what about a complete and a sophisticated civilization?. The evidence is very little.

The Dravidians claim that the Indus valley civilization in Pakistan and Afghanistan was theirs. This is really sheer speculation.

It is more than likely that the Indus valley and the Harrappa civilizations were from the Kshatriya community - the Jains and others.

Yes South India has developed more than North India after independence - but this is not due to any intrinsic superiority of the South Indian people but rather due to Political circumstances and the typical condition and corruption of the Indian economy that North India has faced the brunt of Politics and low education/development.

The South Indians have to introspect this.

[Hetmyre987]

(26-Feb-2013, 11:25 PM)kumarbala Wrote:

(23-Jan-2013, 11:07 AM)Cityboy Wrote: Navodaya schools being GoI funded (except for land that State Govt is expected to provide) therefore teach Hindi and English, but they dont stop there - they also teach a third language even in the Hindi belt.

But why Hindi & English? I understand that they are the two "Languages with official status in India"

Shouldn't it be something similar to this?

English + (another language) + (third language)
Hindi + (another language) + (third language)
One of the other official regional language* + (another language) + (third language)

After all, we all pay our taxes and the GoI gets its fund from people who speak varied languages and from people who cant speak at all. Shouldn't the role of the government be to protect every group that contributes to its existence?

* Official regional language - As guaranteed bu the Constitution of India, http://lawmin.nic.in/coi/coiason29july08.pdf