GOD(S) CAN'T EXIST AND HERE IS WHY.
#13
Deepity or intellectual dishonesty is defined as something that sounds profound but is intellectually hollow

Quote:Real intelligence is understanding that God cannot be perceived through intelligence.
Through what then? Ignorance? Blind faith? Donations to the local place of worship perhaps? This also sounds suspiciously like a dialogue from The Matrix. "What is the truth, Morpheus?" " The truth is that there is no truth, Neo"

Quote:Real intelligence is understanding that the definition of God is beyond definitions.
So this something is all mighty, all powerful, has revealed itself to a few prophets, issued laws, carried out elaborate discussions on battlefields and so forth and we still can't agree upon the basic outlines of this super-natural entity?
Matrix equivalent: "What is the nature of the Matrix, Morpheus?"
"The Matrix which you've manipulated, dodged bullets in and resuscitated Trinity in is beyond a reasonable explanation. Why don't we just say it's mysterious?"

Quote:Real intelligence is understanding that the meanings of existence and non-existence are same.
Matrix equivalence: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. Blink
"It's alright, I rarely meet anyone who's able to read it properly. Although personally, I never thought that it to be an odd of a name. Once I give people the pronunciation, they tend to remember my name by easily associating me with it. A unique face, a unique moniker."
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#14
I thought this is a forum where we can discuss freely on various issues rationally. But going through the comment of the moderator I am skeptical. To stress what to write or not is not free discussion. I may disagree with a majority of you, whether it makes sense or not is up to each individual, you can always refute my thought. But advising me not to write such things is not lesser than any theist fundamentalism.

I believe the purest theist and atheist are in the same platform. I also believe a rational atheist should be highly regarded to an irrational theist.
#15
Through what then? Ignorance? Blind faith? Donations to the local place of worship perhaps? This also sounds suspiciously like a dialogue from [b]The Matrix. "What is the truth, Morpheus?" " The truth is that there is no truth, Neo"[/b]

I have to google and find out what is Morpheus, Matrix etc. Refer my previous post, I had emphasized on "rational thinking". That is the ultimate tool.

So this something is all mighty, all powerful, has revealed itself to a few prophets, issued laws, carried out elaborate discussions on battlefields and so forth and we still can't agree upon the basic outlines of this super-natural entity? Matrix equivalent : "What is the nature of the Matrix, Morpheus?" "The Matrix which you've manipulated, dodged bullets in and resuscitated Trinity in is beyond a reasonable explanation. Why don't we just say it's mysterious?"


We are discussing about the "Gods cant exist" topic. Revealing to prophets and discussion in battlefield can be dealt in separate threads. Yes it is mysterious in a way beyond human intelligence to explain or understand. That is why I had quoted "Real intelligence is understanding that God cannot be perceived through intelligence". A Nastik would have coined the same sentence in a different way.

If science could give explanations for everything we could have rooted out God. But science has its limitations and that is the fact.

Matrix equivalence Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

There is no spoon according to you. There is a beautiful spoon shining according to me. Each one of us is not going to prove the other that we are wrong. Because again "it is way beyond human intelligence to explain or understand. smile



#16
Just to say, that double-posting (that is posting two posts in a row) is not not good forum etiquette. Please consider merging both your posts into a single one.

The Matrix is a brilliant movie sci-fi trilogy. Unless you never watch English films, this is something you can't have missed. I suggest you watch it as it's really good (the first one atleast! smile )

Quote:I have to google and find out what is Morpheus, Matrix etc. Refer my previous post, I had emphasized on "rational thinking". That is the ultimate tool.
If science could give explanations for everything we could have rooted out God. But science has its limitations and that is the fact.

You argue for rationalism and also throw around pseudo-profound deepities. That seems to be a contradiction in the thought process or a cognitive dissonance.

Also, what I discussed earlier about battlefields and archaic texts is very much relevant to this topic. Over the course of time god has supposedly interacted with humans and revealed his supposed wisdom with the privileged few. And yet he's beyond human comprehension or definition?

Quote:If science could give explanations for everything we could have rooted out God. But science has its limitations and that is the fact.

Exactly. So what's your point? Because science doesn't all the answers, that automatically validates the existence of god? Pray tell how you came about to that conclusion. Also bluntly admitting that something is beyond our understanding and also being smug about is the pinnacle of ignorance. Scientists are willing to agree that they don't have the answers; but at no point are they ever going to say: "Wow, Black Holes are awesome, but they are beyond my understanding" and then smile about it.

I don't mean to discredit you or your ideas, sir, but I basically feel you may have some good argument points with you but are unable to communicate them properly without fumbling into logic traps. GoodMorning


"It's alright, I rarely meet anyone who's able to read it properly. Although personally, I never thought that it to be an odd of a name. Once I give people the pronunciation, they tend to remember my name by easily associating me with it. A unique face, a unique moniker."
#17
Just to say, that double-posting (that is posting two posts in a row) is not not good forum etiquette. Please consider merging both your posts into a single one.

I thought I could reply to the moderator and yourself with separate post. Anyway thanks for teaching me the forum etiquette.

The Matrix is a brilliant movie sci-fi trilogy. Unless you never watch English films, this is something you can't have missed. I suggest you watch it as it's really good (the first one atleast! smile )

I had watched it in Television long before in parts. Anyway will watch it again.

You argue for rationalism and also throw around pseudo-profound deepities. That seems to be a contradiction in the thought process or a cognitive dissonance

Be specific. Which throws "pseudo-profound deepities". Please don't answer everything.

Also, what I discussed earlier about battlefields and archaic texts is very much relevant to this topic. Over the course of time god has supposedly interacted with humans and revealed his supposed wisdom with the privileged few. And yet he's beyond human comprehension or definition?

So you had meant that god has revealed to the prophets and in battlefields and still we cannot outline the basics of this super natural entity.

The oxford dictionary meaning for word reveal Relig. is "make known by inspiration or supernatural means" so it is again going to beyond our intelligence. I had only stated the outlines of the super natural entity or whatever name you call [refer those three statements again] .

Exactly. So what's your point? Because science doesn't all the answers, that automatically validates the existence of god? Pray tell how you came about to that conclusion. Also bluntly admitting that something is beyond our understanding and also being smug about is the pinnacle of ignorance.

Yes science doesn't have all the answers. It understands something today and something else tomorrow based on its level of development. It is a never ending process. So my rational thinking after understanding the limitations of science turns towards metaphysical answers. My rational thinking concludes that the modern atheism merely ask questions and doesn't have any solutions. Every question by a atheist to prove god exists can be countered by a similar question to prove god doesn't exist. Whereas spiritual texts/saints/gurus provide me ways and means for the realization and therefore positive. Because the easiest task is to ask questions and countering views, but to provide answers is most difficult. Again I never said that just because science doesn't answer questions it validates god.
I only say the moment science cannot answer the question, it is unfit to proceed with. Intelligence here is used to understand the limitation of intelligence and proceed towards realization.






#18
Hariom.
Your post is almost unreadable. Learn how to quote somebody else's comments and then put your comments. There is a "preview post" button that you can use to review your post before actually posting it.

Secondly this is NOT a forum to discuss any topic "freely". You probably have committed the typical fallacy of considering "freethought" as "free thought". Kindly refer this to understand what "freethought" is really about.

And if you have any other concerns about moderation policy and want to discuss it DO NOT USE THIS THREAD. You can use this thread instead.

(02-Jun-2012, 02:31 PM)Hariom Wrote: Be specific. Which throws "pseudo-profound deepities". Please don't answer everything.

I had clearly numbered deepities against your statements. What additional specificity do you want?

(02-Jun-2012, 02:31 PM)Hariom Wrote: The oxford dictionary meaning for word reveal Relig. is "make known by inspiration or supernatural means" so it is again going to beyond our intelligence. I had only stated the outlines of the super natural entity or whatever name you call [refer those three statements again] .

If you understand what supernatural means then it pretty much BEYOND US in all aspects not just intelligence. And that is what Nick's point has been. If its supernatural how can it have been ever revealed to a select few. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

(02-Jun-2012, 02:31 PM)Hariom Wrote: Yes science doesn't have all the answers. It understands something today and something else tomorrow based on its level of development. It is a never ending process.

The part that you are condemning is what makes Science AWESOME.


(02-Jun-2012, 02:31 PM)Hariom Wrote: So my rational thinking after understanding the limitations of science turns towards metaphysical answers. My rational thinking concludes that the modern atheism merely ask questions and doesn't have any solutions.

The above statement is over generalization and hence a lie. But in any case, you talk about rationality and do not really follow it. When you don't know an answer the most rational thing to do is say so rather than concoct one.

(02-Jun-2012, 02:31 PM)Hariom Wrote: Every question by a atheist to prove god exists can be countered by a similar question to prove god doesn't exist. Whereas spiritual texts/saints/gurus provide me ways and means for the realization and therefore positive. Because the easiest task is to ask questions and countering views, but to provide answers is most difficult. Again I never said that just because science doesn't answer questions it validates god.

I only say the moment science cannot answer the question, it is unfit to proceed with. Intelligence here is used to understand the limitation of intelligence and proceed towards realization.

Rationality is NOT about getting answers, its about getting RIGHT answers. So just because some system has answers doesn't make it rational. And you seem to be uncomfortable with the part of "now knowing an answer right now". In that case Science is surely not for you. But realize one thing, all the "realization stuff of gurus" etc. is just a flowery way to say "I don't know".
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#19
(02-Jun-2012, 05:59 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: Your post is almost unreadable. Learn how to quote somebody else's comments and then put your comments. There is a "preview post" button that you can use to review your post before actually posting it.

Secondly this is NOT a forum to discuss any topic "freely". You probably have committed the typical fallacy of considering "freethought" as "free thought". Kindly refer this to understand what "freethought" is really about.

Thanks for teaching me the difference between freethought and free thought.
(02-Jun-2012, 05:59 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: I had clearly numbered deepities against your statements. What additional specificity do you want?

Deepities ?! you mean an ambiguous statement ? Can I expect some simple terms from you folks so that an ordinary person like me can answer.

(02-Jun-2012, 05:59 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: If you understand what supernatural means then it pretty much BEYOND US in all aspects not just intelligence. And that is what Nick's point has been. If its supernatural how can it have been ever revealed to a select few. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

The select few should answer this. Because who were really revealed and who were crooks is again a point of debate. I have not mentioned about people getting revealed by God. It was Nick who brought it and I had only given the meaning for it. It is not my cake and neither I am not eating it too.

(02-Jun-2012, 05:59 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: The part that you are condemning is what makes Science AWESOME.
Do you know the meaning of condemnation ? why are you putting your word into my mouth. I was
only telling the fact and refute my thought if possible. I love science with all its limitations.

(02-Jun-2012, 05:59 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: The above statement is over generalization and hence a lie. But in any case, you talk about rationality and do not really follow it. When you don't know an answer the most rational thing to do is say so rather than concoct one.

You can call it as an lie and that is your freedom. If "rationality" is not believing thing that are beyond our power of rational thinking then you are right. What appears for you as concocted one may be an experience of enlightenment for me. Because neither I cannot explain and you cannot understand. This debate may go on for thousands of years without any end.

(02-Jun-2012, 05:59 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: Rationality is NOT about getting answers, its about getting RIGHT answers. So just because some system has answers doesn't make it rational.
Nice one. But who is decide which is right and which wrong, when it is beyond your intelligence ? Because I had sensed that intelligence has limitations. My brain cannot think beyond limits, how could I describe the infinite with my limited
intelligence. It is beyond my capacity to perceive. Einstein famously quoted " The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. After understanding the limitations of the servant I have to listen to my intuition and all others that may be possible instead of closing the
doors.
(02-Jun-2012, 05:59 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: And you seem to be uncomfortable with the part of "now knowing an answer right now". In that case Science is surely not for you.

To rephrase it, I am patient enough so that it blossoms in me, rather than shutting the door and calling it irrational.

(02-Jun-2012, 05:59 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: But realize one thing, all the "realization stuff of gurus" etc. is just a flowery way to say "I don't know".
I can again rephrase your statement, all the "rational thinking stuff of atheist" are just a flowery way to say I know everything.
#20
When you've decided on your own with no proof that there is a god who is beyond your intelligence and are completely willing to submit yourself to its whims and fancies without thought or query, waiting patiently for a miracle or a moment of enlightenment- right then and there you have shut yourself off from rational query.
We are all limited in our capacity to think and to act but just because of that short coming, to directly think that something is beyond our intelligence is plain ridiculous. If that is the rationale I can even argue for magical rainbow ponies and leprechauns with a British accent because they are beyond my intelligence. Trust me, I'm not waiting on leprechauns to visit me with a revelation anytime soon.

This is the last from me on this post. No

"It's alright, I rarely meet anyone who's able to read it properly. Although personally, I never thought that it to be an odd of a name. Once I give people the pronunciation, they tend to remember my name by easily associating me with it. A unique face, a unique moniker."
#21
(02-Jun-2012, 09:34 PM)Hariom Wrote: Deepities ?! you mean an ambiguous statement ? Can I expect some simple terms from you folks so that an ordinary person like me can answer.

Nick had given a link to understand what Deepity is. In any case you can always google the term to understand more about it. Do not expect spoon-feeding.

(02-Jun-2012, 09:34 PM)Hariom Wrote: The select few should answer this. Because who were really revealed and who were crooks is again a point of debate. I have not mentioned about people getting revealed by God. It was Nick who brought it and I had only given the meaning for it. It is not my cake and neither I am not eating it too.

Supernatural revelation is an oxymoron. Supernatural means "not belonging to natural world or our universe". But a revelation to somebody in our universe has to be in our universe. So it can either be "natural revelation" or "supernatural nothing".

The whole idea of revelation doesn't hold any waters under critical thinking. How are we sure it wasn't a hallucination? What is more likely: a brain malfunctioning or some entity that exists beyond the causal laws of our universe suddenly obeying the laws for sometime just to give a vague lesson in ethics and morals (that is one interesting thing, this entity never seems to be interested in math or technology) to some eccentric folk?

(02-Jun-2012, 09:34 PM)Hariom Wrote: Do you know the meaning of condemnation ? why are you putting your word into my mouth. I was
only telling the fact and refute my thought if possible. I love science with all its limitations.

You are right. It wasn't condemnation. Considering "refinement of understanding" as a limitation is idiocy.

(02-Jun-2012, 09:34 PM)Hariom Wrote: You can call it as an lie and that is your freedom. If "rationality" is not believing thing that are beyond our power of rational thinking then you are right.

Rationality will tell you that Science has limitations. But if you are rational enough, then you'll also understand that the "so called metaphysical answers" are gibberish and not offering any answer really. So it isn't irrational to state that Science has limitations, but it is irrational to consider a random answer as the "correct answer" without a shred of empirical evidence.

(02-Jun-2012, 09:34 PM)Hariom Wrote: What appears for you as concocted one may be an experience of enlightenment for me. Because neither I cannot explain and you cannot understand. This debate may go on for thousands of years without any end.

Brain can achieve extreme feats and give "religious" experience that is compelling. Go through this TED talk to understand more.

Nothing irrational about having a transcendental experience. Nothing irrational about enjoying it. Nothing irrational in getting moved by it. Plenty irrational to consider it an action of supernatural entity instead of your brain without any supporting evidence.

Again choice is simple (atleast for rational person), what is more probable a brain stroke or divine revelation.

(02-Jun-2012, 09:34 PM)Hariom Wrote: To rephrase it, I am patient enough so that it blossoms in me, rather than shutting the door and calling it irrational.

Who is calling what irrational? If you are talking about "divine revelation" then it is irrational to blindly believe in it. There is not a shred of empirical evidence for them, neither any basic logical consistency. For the 3rd time, what is more probable, brain misfiring or ...
If you feel like you are getting divine revelation (I always get that transcendental experience after watching Matrix triology back to back smile) enjoy it, but also do talk to a doctor.

(02-Jun-2012, 09:34 PM)Hariom Wrote: I can again rephrase your statement, all the "rational thinking stuff of atheist" are just a flowery way to say I know everything.

Do you even know what you are talking about? I am bumping up your warning level for generally making random statements without even understanding anything. First of all do not refer to us (atleast me) as atheists. Thats like referring to a human as "collection of cells". Correct but not accurate. We here are freethinkers and not just atheists. And because of our scientific temper we are OK to say "Ok, I don't know that right now" or "I may never know that". So we NEVER say "I know everything".
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#22
(02-Jun-2012, 11:11 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: Nick had given a link to understand what Deepity is. In any case you can always google the term to understand more about it. Do not expect spoon-feeding.

Supernatural revelation is an oxymoron. Supernatural means "not belonging to natural world or our universe". But a revelation to somebody in our universe has to be in our universe. So it can either be "natural revelation" or "supernatural nothing".

The whole idea of revelation doesn't hold any waters under critical thinking. How are we sure it wasn't a hallucination? What is more likely: a brain malfunctioning or some entity that exists beyond the causal laws of our universe suddenly obeying the laws for sometime just to give a vague lesson in ethics and morals (that is one interesting thing, this entity never seems to be interested in math or technology) to some eccentric folk?
I do not want to advocate myself for revelations. So leaving it aside.

(02-Jun-2012, 11:11 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: You are right. It wasn't condemnation. Considering "refinement of understanding" as a limitation is idiocy.

We can express it in flowery ways still the underlying logic remaining the same. Science has its limitations.

(02-Jun-2012, 11:11 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: Rationality will tell you that Science has limitations.

Thanks for acknowledging it.

(02-Jun-2012, 11:11 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: But if you are rational enough, then you'll also understand that the "so called metaphysical answers" are gibberish and not offering any answer really.

We are free to call it gibberish, blabber are whatever words until and unless we experience it ourselves.
(02-Jun-2012, 11:11 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: So it isn't irrational to state that Science has limitations, but it is irrational to consider a random answer as the "correct answer" without a shred of empirical evidence.


Which do you term as random answer ? There are tonnes of empirical evidence. But again some may be true and some may be fake. Who can collect all them and analyze ? Even if given the right empirical evidence, how will you evaluate it ? That is what I am repeating again and again, neither I cannot express or you cannot understand. Unfortunately it cannot be made available through intellectual discourses. You should develop the ways and means or humbly seek the guidance of a proper Guru..

(02-Jun-2012, 11:11 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: Brain can achieve extreme feats and give "religious" experience that is compelling. Go through this TED talk to understand more.

Even enlightenment can be called as extreme feats of the brain. So it all depends on different ways you express it. But according to me god is beyond expressions, I will read the link latter and thanks.

(02-Jun-2012, 11:11 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: Nothing irrational about having a transcendental experience. Nothing irrational about enjoying it. Nothing irrational in getting moved by it. Plenty irrational to consider it an action of supernatural entity instead of your brain without any supporting evidence. Again choice is simple (atleast for rational person), what is more probable a brain stroke or divine revelation.

Who is calling what irrational? If you are talking about "divine revelation" then it is irrational to blindly believe in it. There is not a shred of empirical evidence for them, neither any basic logical consistency. For the 3rd time, what is more probable, brain misfiring or ...
If you feel like you are getting divine revelation (I always get that transcendental experience after watching Matrix triology back to back smile) enjoy it, but also do talk to a doctor.

Again you are free to call anything you beleive. A brain stroke, a brain haemorrhage or brain misfiring any other term, it depends on the individual perception. BTB I believe transcendental experiences are not enjoyed. Because enjoyment is the product of the mind. Cessation of mind is primary to get such experiences. [according to me] So if you enjoy transcendental experience you should certainly talk to a doctor.[/quote]

(02-Jun-2012, 11:11 PM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: Do you even know what you are talking about? I am bumping up your warning level for generally making random statements without even understanding anything. First of all do not refer to us (atleast me) as atheists. Thats like referring to a human as "collection of cells". Correct but not accurate. We here are freethinkers and not just atheists. And because of our scientific temper we are OK to say "Ok, I don't know that right now" or "I may never know that". So we NEVER say "I know everything".


You call yourself as a freethinker and therefore free enough to decide on my warning levels.
I havn't pointed anybody as an atheist or anything else. I am least interested in personal bashing. Since you made a generic statement on Guru's, I rephrased and made a generic statement on atheist. Why do you take it personally ? I believe a freethinker can also be a theist.

#23
(03-Jun-2012, 09:01 AM)Hariom Wrote: We are free to call it gibberish, blabber are whatever words until and unless we experience it ourselves.

You might want to read the chapter "Argument by personal experience" of "God Delusion" to understand my objections. Personal experience can NEVER stand up as any kind of proof or evidence for presence of supernatural entity.

(03-Jun-2012, 09:01 AM)Hariom Wrote: There are tonnes of empirical evidence.

Give us ONE. And not an anecdote but something that stands the Scientific standards.

(03-Jun-2012, 09:01 AM)Hariom Wrote: But again some may be true and some may be fake. Who can collect all them and analyze ? Even if given the right empirical evidence, how will you evaluate it ? That is what I am repeating again and again, neither I cannot express or you cannot understand. Unfortunately it cannot be made available through intellectual discourses. You should develop the ways and means or humbly seek the guidance of a proper Guru..

And then you go and call yourself rational. Why do you think I cannot understand? And do not give stupid reasons like "cannot be made available through intellectual discourse". What does that even mean? It sounds like: I will state something without giving proof. Then keep it to yourself. Your statements are nothing but just plain assertions. And one of the standard way to make them sound rational is "its beyond our understanding". That just saying "I don't know".

(03-Jun-2012, 09:01 AM)Hariom Wrote: But according to me god is beyond expressions, I will read the link latter and thanks.
Deepity #umpteen.

(03-Jun-2012, 09:01 AM)Hariom Wrote: Again you are free to call anything you beleive. A brain stroke, a brain haemorrhage or brain misfiring any other term, it depends on the individual perception. BTB I believe transcendental experiences are not enjoyed. Because enjoyment is the product of the mind. Cessation of mind is primary to get such experiences. [according to me] So if you enjoy transcendental experience you should certainly talk to a doctor.

This is not a matter of BELIEF. So stop using that word. Neuroscientists have proofs for it.

(03-Jun-2012, 09:01 AM)Hariom Wrote: You call yourself as a freethinker and therefore free enough to decide on my warning levels.
I havn't pointed anybody as an atheist or anything else. I am least interested in personal bashing. Since you made a generic statement on Guru's, I rephrased and made a generic statement on atheist. Why do you take it personally ? I believe a freethinker can also be a theist.

Again BELIEF. And also looks like you haven't bothered to understand what "freethought" is. So NOPE, a freethinker cannot be theist. Not at present, given that a freethinker will require empirical evidence to believe in something, and given that there is not a shred of it in respect to supernatural entity.

I do not think you belong to this group. It would be good for you to show yourself out.
Note that another post from you full of such mystic bullshit talk (deepities and plain assertions) and I will ban you. If you want to have conversation with us, talk our language.
#24
(03-Jun-2012, 09:30 AM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: And then you go and call yourself rational. Why do you think I cannot understand? And do not give stupid reasons like "cannot be made available through intellectual discourse". What does that even mean? It sounds like: I will state something without giving proof. Then keep it to yourself. Your statements are nothing but just plain assertions. And one of the standard way to make them sound rational is "its beyond our understanding". That just saying "I don't know".

"You" here was meant not any person in particular, but between two persons. I am again emphasizing, matters of infinite could not be perceived by finite intelligence. Our brain has only the capacity to perceive finite algorithms. Matters of universal/supernatural/god are whatever terms you call are beyond our capacity to perceive. You have to become a part of the infinite to experience the infinite. This is where the spiritual or meta physical platforms come into place. The experiences of infinite cannot be expressed in scientific terms or proven in finite algorithms.

(03-Jun-2012, 09:30 AM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: Again BELIEF. And also looks like you haven't bothered to understand what "freethought" is. So NOPE, a freethinker cannot be theist. Not at present, given that a freethinker will require empirical evidence to believe in something, and given that there is not a shred of it in respect to supernatural entity.

This is bottleneck we suffer in terms of expressions. Whether its belief or realization or understanding the meaning is same. When i say I believe, that belief is an outcome of rational thinking. I again want to emphasize, I may also rationally conclude that certain matters are beyond my rational thinking.

Earlier you had asked me whether I am uncomfortable with "not knowing an answer right now". But if I ask you whether your science could make you know the answer right now, you will say NO.
Because as far as science the answer towards questions of infinite is a big NO. What is universe it will say something, what is beyond the universe ? Does the universe is beyond limits ? If not how could we perceive it ? No No No. But changing towards spiritual or infinite we can find answers which we cannot explain. Of course this is also one way science. The science of enlightenment which cannot be expressed. Actually I am [the spiritual seeker] the one who want to know the answers right now and don't want to wait for centuries till science matures to provide answer.

(03-Jun-2012, 09:30 AM)Kanad Kanhere Wrote: I do not think you belong to this group. It would be good for you to show yourself out.
Note that another post from you full of such mystic bullshit talk (deepities and plain assertions) and I will ban you. If you want to have conversation with us, talk our language.

Nice Kanad Kanhere, I will not disturb this forum again and being an odd man out [according to you] will pull out. God bless you.




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