Govt. of India promoting Ayurveda, Unani, etc.
#13
Scary. I suspect that it's about making money. Notice how he says ayurveda is used to complement "allopathic" treatment. In other words, placebo medicine (which you have to pay for) which does not affect your actual treatment in any way. By the way, if anyone thinks that offering these placebos is a good thing because of the placebo effect, you need to appreciate an important point that Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst made in their book "Trick or Treatment": Real medicines offer the placebo effect in addition to their physiological action. There is really no need to take magic pills on top of that.

On an unrelated note, just read an article about yet another drug - Metformin - that was used a long time ago (as extracts from the French Lilac plant), and then in the 20th century it was researched in clinical studies and made better. It's always good to keep these handy in your bookmarks to combat the "natural is better" crowd:

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/14178
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin
[+] 1 user Likes unsorted's post
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#14
http://www.jagrancityplus.com/storydetai...&catgid=21


'I feel that God has chosen me to heal people'

When I want to meet Dr Naresh Trehan, I was surprised to see that he was taking interviews of each nurse who is going to work in his hospital just to make sure that he has the right person for the job.
Renowned cardiovascular and cardiothoracic surgeon and chairman and managing director of Medanta - The Medicity, Dr Trehan is a god-fearing person and believes in positive approach towards life. This is the mantra of his success.

The fun time
Naresh Trehan was born in Karachi, brought up in Delhi and was student of Modern School, Barakhamba Road. He graduated from King George's Medical College, Lucknow and completed his internship at Safdarjung Hospital, New Delhi. He subsequently obtained a diploma from the American Board of Surgery and the American Board of Cardiothoracic Surgery at the New York University Medical Center. He returned to India in 1988 to set up Escorts Heart Institute and Research Centre. Dr. Trehan was the Executive Director and Chief Cardiovascular Surgeon of the hospital for 20 years. Dr. Trehan has received many prestigious awards, including the Padma Shree and Padma Bhushan. "The college time was a real fun time and we used to enjoy it the most. I was not a bookworm and enjoyed life to the fullest. I was good at co-curricular activities, social work, sports etc. but studies were also important. I ask every student to enjoy college time because it will never come back but studies should also not suffer," he says.

Blessed by god
"I am born to serve people around and make them healthier. I feel fortunate that God has chosen me for this great profession. I would never let him down and would try to ensure that people don't lose faith in doctors". Of course, for his patients Dr Trehan is no less than god.

Adding more to Medanta
Medanta is spread across 43 acres and includes a research center, medical and nursing school. It has over 1,250 beds with 45 operation theatres catering to 20 specialities. Medanta houses six centers of excellence which provide cutting-edge technology, state of the art infrastructure with highly integrated and comprehensive information system.
"Medanta aims to match the standards of clinical care, research and education offered by the likes of Mayo/Harvard and Cleveland clinics even though treatments would be affordable. I chose Gurgaon for my project because of its connectivity to Delhi, Punjab, Haryana. A research institute would be started here soon".

Way to healthy heart
"The key to keep heart healthy is positive thinking and enjoying every moment of life. I recommend every one to think positively and half of their problems would disappear. Eating right, exercise, meditation and most importantly, entertainment keep a person healthy. One should avoid ego and greed. Keep your feet on ground and head in the sky," he advises.
Dr. Trehan loves to listen to music and party if he gets time. "Like every human being I love to spend time with my family and if I get time I like listening to music and watching movies," he signs off.

—Bhawna gandhi


god is his alter ego...
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#15
Medanta = medicine/medical + Vedanta?

My first reaction was this doesn't make sense - "combine the powers of modern and traditional medicine. “The former attacks the disease from the outside, while the latter acts from the inside by strengthening the body to fight it,"
Sajith, thanks to your link, now I understand what is "inside' according to Dr. Trehan, the much awarded surgeon.
http://www.drnareshtrehan.com/

It's a business model that got him the funding so he's changed it from Medicity to Vedanta:
http://www.drnareshtrehan.com/art3.html
"As for Medicity, he says, the Rs 1,200-crore project has been fashioned on the lines of a Mayo, Cleveland, Harvard and John Hopkins in its basics, and intends to go beyond what any conventional medical institute has attempted."

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#16
These people are hiding behind the religious and "Indian" (like in Indian medicine) sentiments. I wanted to know how can we protest or create awareness against AYUSH? We need to plan a demonstration on a large scale.
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#17
(08-Sep-2010, 07:02 AM)Swati Wrote: Medanta = medicine/medical + Vedanta?

My first reaction was this doesn't make sense - "combine the powers of modern and traditional medicine. “The former attacks the disease from the outside, while the latter acts from the inside by strengthening the body to fight it,"
Sajith, thanks to your link, now I understand what is "inside' according to Dr. Trehan, the much awarded surgeon.
http://www.drnareshtrehan.com/

It's a business model that got him the funding so he's changed it from Medicity to Vedanta:
http://www.drnareshtrehan.com/art3.html
"As for Medicity, he says, the Rs 1,200-crore project has been fashioned on the lines of a Mayo, Cleveland, Harvard and John Hopkins in its basics, and intends to go beyond what any conventional medical institute has attempted."

all I can do is *facepalm* this is such a cop out on his part !

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#18
Ayurveda, on the whole is one of India's best export to the West next to Yoga. On most highways n maidans of the country one will find the so-called ayurveda dawakhana also. For the question of 1.Whether Ayurveda works ?
Yes it does work
2.Why are many ayurveda doctors practising Allopathy and get in to hospitals as duty doctors ?
Pay is very less otherwise and lack of self-esteem & confidence with the ayurveda system of medicine.
3.Why is Govt of India promoting Ayush ?
it is trying to make people aware of these systems' role in the clinical aspects than as mere massages n sugar golis n shoo away or reduce quackery in these systems.
4.Why are Ayurveda doctors practising surgery ?
Ayurveda has study material and explanation of surgery in the classical texts and Susrutha the ayurveda scholar is considered as the Father of Surgery. The surgical part of ayurveda lost its progress and glory during the time when Buddhism & Jainism propogated discard of weapons of any kind. Later, during the british raj, ayurveda again received a blow. Most of the well qualified surgeons of Ayurveda restrict themselves in dealing with problems dealing with piles, fissure & fistula ( again a quack favourite !) with para-medical procedures.
5.Why is the efficacy & method of action of Ayurveda not researched and scientifically proven ?
Many original texts are not available.
Practising ayurveda scholars refused and did not promote education of Ayurveda outside their families.
No or no adequate funding of researches in Ayurveda.
The existing allopathic drug mafia has far-reaching impact !
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#19
(21-Sep-2010, 01:42 PM)inde Wrote: Ayurveda, on the whole is one of India's best export to the West next to Yoga. On most highways n maidans of the country one will find the so-called ayurveda dawakhana also. For the question of 1.Whether Ayurveda works ?
Yes it does work
2.Why are many ayurveda doctors practising Allopathy and get in to hospitals as duty doctors ?
Pay is very less otherwise and lack of self-esteem & confidence with the ayurveda system of medicine.
3.Why is Govt of India promoting Ayush ?
it is trying to make people aware of these systems' role in the clinical aspects than as mere massages n sugar golis n shoo away or reduce quackery in these systems.
4.Why are Ayurveda doctors practising surgery ?
Ayurveda has study material and explanation of surgery in the classical texts and Susrutha the ayurveda scholar is considered as the Father of Surgery. The surgical part of ayurveda lost its progress and glory during the time when Buddhism & Jainism propogated discard of weapons of any kind. Later, during the british raj, ayurveda again received a blow. Most of the well qualified surgeons of Ayurveda restrict themselves in dealing with problems dealing with piles, fissure & fistula ( again a quack favourite !) with para-medical procedures.
5.Why is the efficacy & method of action of Ayurveda not researched and scientifically proven ?
Many original texts are not available.
Practising ayurveda scholars refused and did not promote education of Ayurveda outside their families.
No or no adequate funding of researches in Ayurveda.
The existing allopathic drug mafia has far-reaching impact !

You need to provide the evidence to your sweeping statement that Ayurveda does work to treat serious illness. First of all there is nothing in medicine called allopathy, it is called modern medicine. Allopathy is a term coined by the founder of homeopathy and the term is commonly used in India.

Ayurveda is primitive medicine. Its faith based and is quackery. There is also a danger of heavy metals found in Ayurvedic concoctions.

Here is a video that addresses this fallacy that everything natural is good.
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#20
(21-Sep-2010, 01:42 PM)inde Wrote: Ayurveda, on the whole is one of India's best export to the West next to Yoga. On most highways n maidans of the country one will find the so-called ayurveda dawakhana also.

We are aware of these exports. We also have seen how incompetent , pathetic these ayurvedic dawakhana's are. Its a shame when someone sees their advertisements, their English grammar, their medicines etc.

[Image: ayurveda.jpg]


(21-Sep-2010, 01:42 PM)inde Wrote: For the question of 1.Whether Ayurveda works ?
Yes it does work

No it wont work, Ayurveda CANNOT treat any disease.

(21-Sep-2010, 01:42 PM)inde Wrote: 2.Why are many ayurveda doctors practising Allopathy and get in to hospitals as duty doctors ?
Pay is very less otherwise and lack of self-esteem & confidence with the ayurveda system of medicine.

No, It is because of realization that ayurveda doesn't work, scientific medicine does work.

I would like to tell you one incident that I came across recently. There is a barber shop near my house where I was having haircut. The owner of that shop was admitted to hospital because he had an injury in leg which had developed into gangrene. When someone asked why the owner had neglected it till it got so much serious, the barbers told that the owner always used to take ayurvedic medicines. He never used to believe in "English medicine", but after realizing that ayurvedic medicine was not working, the ayurvedic doctor himself took him to an hospital. What can ayurvedic doctor treat life-threatening gangrene with?

(21-Sep-2010, 01:42 PM)inde Wrote: 3.Why is Govt of India promoting Ayush ?
it is trying to make people aware of these systems' role in the clinical aspects than as mere massages n sugar golis n shoo away or reduce quackery in these systems.

Just like Gov't of India is funding Haj pilgrimage, its promoting nonsensical AYUSH.

(21-Sep-2010, 01:42 PM)inde Wrote: 4.Why are Ayurveda doctors practising surgery ?
Ayurveda has study material and explanation of surgery in the classical texts and Susrutha the ayurveda scholar is considered as the Father of Surgery. The surgical part of ayurveda lost its progress and glory during the time when Buddhism & Jainism propogated discard of weapons of any kind. Later, during the british raj, ayurveda again received a blow. Most of the well qualified surgeons of Ayurveda restrict themselves in dealing with problems dealing with piles, fissure & fistula ( again a quack favourite !) with para-medical procedures.

No medicine can loose its importance unless it works. Don't give crap reason that Britishers didn't allow us to practice it.

(21-Sep-2010, 01:42 PM)inde Wrote: 5.Why is the efficacy & method of action of Ayurveda not researched and scientifically proven ?
Many original texts are not available.
Practising ayurveda scholars refused and did not promote education of Ayurveda outside their families.
No or no adequate funding of researches in Ayurveda.
The existing allopathic drug mafia has far-reaching impact !

Ayurveda cannot be scientifically proven since its not a scientific method. There is no need to fund for AYUSH non-sense. Do not feel jealous about allopathy that works.
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#21
I was doing more reading on the subject and came across this article that is rather worrying:
Centre to set up regulator for traditional health systems.

Basically, they are going to set up a regulatory body for AYUSH, parallel to the CDSCO and DCGI. Why do we need this? Why can't the CDSCO and DCGI handle it? The answer is in the article itself:

Janardan Pandey, the designated head of the new regulatory body, defended the government’s moves:
"This is an initial set up constituted exclusively to monitor and regulate the Indian traditional medicine sector, which had been under CDSCO and DCGI till now as far as law enforcement was concerned," he said on Friday. "The prime objective of the new regulatory set-up is to give an impetus to the Indian systems of medicine, which have their own pharmacopoeia or drug formulation standards guide at present."


This is very bad news - it's a massive case of special pleading. If it goes ahead, they can then set up their own standards (lower, of course) and laws (more lenient, of course). Just shameful.
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#22
(21-Sep-2010, 04:44 PM)unsorted Wrote: I was doing more reading on the subject and came across this article that is rather worrying:
Centre to set up regulator for traditional health systems.

Basically, they are going to set up a regulatory body for AYUSH, parallel to the CDSCO and DCGI. Why do we need this? Why can't the CDSCO and DCGI handle it? The answer is in the article itself:

Janardan Pandey, the designated head of the new regulatory body, defended the government’s moves:
"This is an initial set up constituted exclusively to monitor and regulate the Indian traditional medicine sector, which had been under CDSCO and DCGI till now as far as law enforcement was concerned," he said on Friday. "The prime objective of the new regulatory set-up is to give an impetus to the Indian systems of medicine, which have their own pharmacopoeia or drug formulation standards guide at present."


This is very bad news - it's a massive case of special pleading. If it goes ahead, they can then set up their own standards (lower, of course) and laws (more lenient, of course). Just shameful.

This is terrible news indeed. This is another step by the government to protect ayurveda from science. We will have to fight this.
"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
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#23
(05-Sep-2010, 11:35 PM)Sajit Wrote:
(05-Sep-2010, 08:48 PM)Swati Wrote: Arishtopathic Pills Huh

Magazine | Sep 13, 2010

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?266991

Wow thanks for the link Swati, this sounds crazy....Naresh Trehan is a leading heart surgeon in the country. Do his beliefs make him foolish?? Or is this just another business model with a USP ? Placebo?

"The Medanta hospital in Gurgaon claims to offer the very best in modern medicine, but for all that, it has a stark anachronism in its lobby: two floor-to-ceiling ‘Trees of Life’ in latticework, to which well-wishers tie strings as they pray for the quick recovery of patients. It’s a scene one would normally associate with dargahs rather than modern hospitals. Actually, this is quite in character with Medanta, where, in a unique experiment, cutting-edge medicine is being used in conjunction with traditional Indian healing and practices like yoga, meditation, ayurveda and even, it would seem, the power of prayer. Doctors at Medanta say they have seen patients recover faster than they do with modern medicine alone.

The idea, says Naresh Trehan, cardiac surgeon and chairman of Medanta hospital, is to combine the powers of modern and traditional medicine. “The former attacks the disease from the outside, while the latter acts from the inside by strengthening the body to fight it,” he says. “It’s like combining the powers of the army and the air force.” The hospital routinely uses ayurveda to complement the allopathic management of Parkinson’s disease and lifestyle-related diseases like high cholesterol levels and hypertension."

what???

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#24
hey pals, looks like quite an intresting discussion we have here. I believe Nirmukta believes in having a decent sharing of view points between its members and not simply refusing to accept what someone else says n label it as Crap !

For all those who bothered to reply, Thankyou for your time.

Modern science, allopathy whatever you call it, any science has its limitations.And for anything to flourish, needs nurture.so if Ayurveda wasnt given patronage n cudnt make it worthwhile enough for you rationally n scientifically thinking souls to appreciate or understand it, its Ayurveda's problem. i was trying to say that during the emerging of buddhism n jainism n later during the british raj, it was'nt promoted and could not come up to prove itself.

And yea the horrible flex posters we see on road sides n many quacks have done lots of damage to the system and its one of the most corrupt systems. On contrary to popular belief, Ayurveda also has side effects n has a variety of products sourced from plant, animal n mineral origin. there are techniques mentioned about the collection, purification, processing etc. In India, its sad that these norms are'nt followed n taken up seriously. So we have a tarnished image n finall the government is waking up to doing something to standardise it.

I am not jealous of system of medicine that it works, because i know ayurveda does also, since i am practising it from past 5 years n has seen clinical experiences. what matters that during the course of life were we are all going to perish one day, y not live in a better way than leading an ill life, with whatever system of medicine that can give relief from the pain.Ayurveda is not faith based n primitive. It has explanations and theories, some which is difficult to understand and accept in the present lifestyle. i suggest please read sanskrit versions of Susrutha Samhita dalhana teeka/ Charaka samhitha chakrapani teeka/ astanga hrudaya indu teeka before pushing the system aside as primitive and irrelevant..

Why not understand something in a better way and then dissect it ?

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