Guru Swami G

[Shantanu]

(13-Sep-2010, 07:09 PM)GuruSwamiG Wrote: Namaste

Sahaj is effortless --

For the fully established one in Realization they remain
in the Sahaja Nirvikalpa State of Consciousness.
This is when the mental drama of mind play has receded
and simply and effortlessly Pure Awareness of that ever
present Non-duality Is.

GuruSwamG, there is no realisation of a Higher Consciousness or Intelligent Being, and no Awareness of such in Reality. All there is as the underlying reality is Brahman or physical energy which is guided by its four fundamental forces, weak force strong force, gravitation and electromagnetism. This Brahman takes no interest in the affairs of humans and is solely physical energy that goes its own way. This is the ultimate realisation. No Gods, no Power. Rejoice in this knowledge. There is no purpose to life except survival. No bowing to any superior Power is possible because there simply is not any superior power. We set our own objectives which to a an advaitist is dharma to assist the development of a peaceful and prosperous society. This ensures that the human species survives. Dharma Rakshati Rakshita: If you do dharma that very act protects the individual because society is stronger and takes care of more and more of the individuals.

[Ajita Kamal]

(14-Sep-2010, 08:06 PM)Shantanu Wrote: All there is as the underlying reality is Brahman or physical energy which is guided by its four fundamental forces, weak force strong force, gravitation and electromagnetism.

Why would a Freethinker resort to such ad hoc reasoning? Brahman is a superstitious concept. You are trying to give it a scientific meaning by associating with it modern scientific ideas about the universe, thus allowing for the superstitious notion of Brahman to coexist in culture and receive the protection of science.

[Shantanu]

(14-Sep-2010, 11:31 PM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:

(14-Sep-2010, 08:06 PM)Shantanu Wrote: All there is as the underlying reality is Brahman or physical energy which is guided by its four fundamental forces, weak force strong force, gravitation and electromagnetism.

Why would a Freethinker resort to such ad hoc reasoning? Brahman is a superstitious concept. You are trying to give it a scientific meaning by associating with it modern scientific ideas about the universe, thus allowing for the superstitious notion of Brahman to coexist in culture and receive the protection of science.

My idea is very simple. Matter (atoms) and energy are interchangeable and everything can therefore be talked of in terms of something useful and real such as physical energy. Since every thing we see around us from the billions of stars to life on Earth and the Solar System requires energy all there is in the universe is physical energy. This is what I call Brahman. I believe this is the appropriate Hindu word for it. It is the underlying constituent of the universe. This Brahman is not God or anything more than simply physical energy and is therefore real and not a superstituous concept. It is purely an interpretation of science. The advaitist is at one with this Brahman and looks at life in this absolute manner. There are different levels of reality from absolute (paramarthika) to pragmatic (vyvaharika) and hallucinatory. Whilst we live in the pragmatic and according to the Hindu tradition of dharma with all the emotion that entails at the absolute level there is nothing else but Brahman as physical energy. Hindu sages have noted this ages ago when they said Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma. There is no place in this for superstition and God.

[Ajita Kamal]

(14-Sep-2010, 11:52 PM)Shantanu Wrote: My idea is very simple. Matter (atoms) and energy are interchangeable and everything can therefore be talked of in terms of something useful and real such as physical energy.

Yes, this is what SCIENCE has taught us.

Quote: Since every thing we see around us from the billions of stars to life on Earth and the Solar System requires energy all there is in the universe is physical energy.

OK.

Quote:This is what I call Brahman.

Now why the hell would you go and do that?

Quote:I believe this is the appropriate Hindu word for it.

That is the way you interpret Brahman. Remember, you said 'This is what I call Brahman", 'I" being the operative word.

Quote: This Brahman is not God or anything more than simply physical energy and is therefore real and not a superstituous concept.

You are cherry-picking one of the interpretations and ignoring the others. This is the part that you don't seem to understand.

Quote:It is purely an interpretation of science.

No, it's an appropriation of science. As I said in another comment above, the ancient ideas must be qualified through the lens of science and reason, but not the other way around.

The rest of your post is more of Indian philosophy. That's all well and good. What we're against is the promotion of religion. You posted 12 posts on the forums thus far, and all but one of them were on articles related to Hindu beliefs. You defended Hinduism in each and every one of those cases. In the one case that you did not support Hinduism, you criticized Catholicism. Now, I am thrilled that you have it in you to criticize the terrible belief system that is the Catholic faith, but the evidence here clearly suggests that your motivations are not neutral. That is, you are approaching this from the perspective of a Hindu.

It will take too long for me to explain our position, so I will post some links instead.

These are articles on our understanding of Hinduism.
http://nirmukta.com/2009/11/28/is-hindu-...n-culture/
http://nirmukta.com/2009/05/11/hinduism-...y-of-life/
http://nirmukta.com/2008/09/30/why-i-cri...-the-most/
http://nirmukta.com/2008/11/15/further-t...-hinduism/
http://nirmukta.com/2009/12/11/am-i-a-hindu/

This is our general policy on treating religion.
http://indianatheists.com/religion/

This is my approach to moderating Freethought groups. It contains a section that may help you understand what Freethought implies: http://nirmukta.com/2010/09/08/trolls-an...ht-groups/

The ban is temporary. I hope you will cease promoting religion here and join us in celebrating Freethought.

[Sajit]

"Ancient ideas must be qualified through the lens of science and reason, but not the other way around."

Well said Ajita !

[Shantanu]

(15-Sep-2010, 01:04 AM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:

(14-Sep-2010, 11:52 PM)Shantanu Wrote: My idea is very simple. Matter (atoms) and energy are interchangeable and everything can therefore be talked of in terms of something useful and real such as physical energy.

Yes, this is what SCIENCE has taught us.

Quote: Since every thing we see around us from the billions of stars to life on Earth and the Solar System requires energy all there is in the universe is physical energy.

OK.

Quote:This is what I call Brahman.

Now why the hell would you go and do that?

Quote:I believe this is the appropriate Hindu word for it.

That is the way you interpret Brahman. Remember, you said 'This is what I call Brahman", 'I" being the operative word.

Quote: This Brahman is not God or anything more than simply physical energy and is therefore real and not a superstituous concept.

You are cherry-picking one of the interpretations and ignoring the others. This is the part that you don't seem to understand.

Quote:It is purely an interpretation of science.

No, it's an appropriation of science. As I said in another comment above, the ancient ideas must be qualified through the lens of science and reason, but not the other way around.

The rest of your post is more of Indian philosophy. That's all well and good. What we're against is the promotion of religion. You posted 12 posts on the forums thus far, and all but one of them were on articles related to Hindu beliefs. You defended Hinduism in each and every one of those cases. In the one case that you did not support Hinduism, you criticized Catholicism. Now, I am thrilled that you have it in you to criticize the terrible belief system that is the Catholic faith, but the evidence here clearly suggests that your motivations are not neutral. That is, you are approaching this from the perspective of a Hindu.

It will take too long for me to explain our position, so I will post some links instead.

These are articles on our understanding of Hinduism.
http://nirmukta.com/2009/11/28/is-hindu-...n-culture/
http://nirmukta.com/2009/05/11/hinduism-...y-of-life/
http://nirmukta.com/2008/09/30/why-i-cri...-the-most/
http://nirmukta.com/2008/11/15/further-t...-hinduism/
http://nirmukta.com/2009/12/11/am-i-a-hindu/

This is our general policy on treating religion.
http://indianatheists.com/religion/

This is my approach to moderating Freethought groups. It contains a section that may help you understand what Freethought implies: http://nirmukta.com/2010/09/08/trolls-an...ht-groups/

The ban is temporary. I hope you will cease promoting religion here and join us in celebrating Freethought.

I do not support let alone promote the Hinduism I see being practiced by my own relatives and other Hindus. For example I am against the caste system having taken off my sacred thread about two years ago when I became a non-dual advaitist. I am against most Abrahamic and theistic religions as well as against superstitions such as reincarnation and karma. I am however in favour of duties and righteous actions (dharma) and believe that one should nurture society as being what sustains the individuals who are part of it. These are my beliefs and I do not know if they are Hindu or not. I suppose they are only Hindu in so far as advaita is a cornerstone of Hinduism. One cannot get away from ones beliefs that were duly arrived at after 53 years of life in detailed consideration and understanding.

Having said that I now understand what nirmukta.net stands for in terms of promoting Freethought but should also say that one necessarily does this from within the confines of ones beliefs. Please accept my apologies if I gave the wrong impression with my posts.

[Ajita Kamal]

Quote:I do not support let alone promote the Hinduism I see being practiced by my own relatives and other Hindus. For example I am against the caste system having taken off my sacred thread about two years ago when I became a non-dual advaitist. I am against most Abrahamic and theistic religions as well as against superstitions such as reincarnation and karma. I am however in favour of duties and righteous actions (dharma) and believe that one should nurture society as being what sustains the individuals who are part of it. These are my beliefs and I do not know if they are Hindu or not. I suppose they are only Hindu in so far as advaita is a cornerstone of Hinduism. One cannot get away from ones beliefs that were duly arrived at after 53 years of life in detailed consideration and understanding.

No, I wouldn't say that your beliefs are Hindu, but that they incorporate aspects of Indian philosophy that are actually humanistic in nature. Your beliefs by themselves are not the problem, and in fact, are completely in line with what we are about here. The issue is the Hindu memes that were getting propagated, knowingly or unknowingly. I think that you are certainly someone who accepts the primacy of reason and logic when dealing with factual claims about the natural world, as do most of us here. There are certainly other philosophical aspects to culture such as compassion, empathy and ethical living, that require moral premises that can only be provided for by philosophical debate. But all of this can be done without promoting any religious identities of the type that are morally repressive and culturally stifling.

Welcome to the group, and I hope we can all learn from each other.