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Kundali and Match fixing
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ayyawar Offline
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Post: #1
Kundali and Match fixing

This is really interesting experience, I want to share with you guyz,,

Since i'm graduated and working, my parents thought, its right time to get married...

They been looking for girls for me in india, When they find a girl, List of things they do.

1) Is she belongs to same caste.

2) does kundali matches


I kinda like might little bit agree with caste system, its not that i believe caste system, its just both might have same food habits and tastes, that might help in happy married life.


But one thing i do really hate is kundali, they check compatibility based on some stupid system, which doesn't have any sort of proof nor evidence. Why can't we just look at person character, education qualification, core values etc to determine person.. when i started look into it, one of cousin, she is 34 years old now, she didn't married cuz she has some kujadosham.. no one was willing to marry her..

when i started to look into deeply, the astrology and kundali was deep routed into our culture, no one really wants to break it...

This is really pathetic..
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natselrox Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

If you like the caste-system because it facilitates compatibility in food-taste in the medieval system of arranged marriages, I have nothing more to say. Sorry.
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Sajit Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

(22-08-2010 11:04 AM)ayyawar Wrote:  This is really interesting experience, I want to share with you guyz,,

Since i'm graduated and working, my parents thought, its right time to get married...

They been looking for girls for me in india, When they find a girl, List of things they do.

1) Is she belongs to same caste.

2) does kundali matches


I kinda like might little bit agree with caste system, its not that i believe caste system, its just both might have same food habits and tastes, that might help in happy married life.


But one thing i do really hate is kundali, they check compatibility based on some stupid system, which doesn't have any sort of proof nor evidence. Why can't we just look at person character, education qualification, core values etc to determine person.. when i started look into it, one of cousin, she is 34 years old now, she didn't married cuz she has some kujadosham.. no one was willing to marry her..

when i started to look into deeply, the astrology and kundali was deep routed into our culture, no one really wants to break it...

This is really pathetic..

You sound like an apologist to the caste system.
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natselrox Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

Absolutely, Sajit.
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ayyawar Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

Yeah, I sound like apologist here, But I was comparing 2 things kundali and caste system, I thought kundali way worst, Seriously I don't support caste system, I really hate it, at same time i don't stop one practicing cast system.

My uncle was atheist, still preferred to marry same caste girl, When I asked reason, He said, He didn't believed in Caste but he like the culture, Like waking early morning, yoga, bath wt cold water, etc etc He wanted to preserve that culture, so preferred same cast girl..
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Sajit Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

(22-08-2010 08:36 PM)ayyawar Wrote:  Yeah, I sound like apologist here, But I was comparing 2 things kundali and caste system, I thought kundali way worst, Seriously I don't support caste system, I really hate it, at same time i don't stop one practicing cast system.

My uncle was atheist, still preferred to marry same caste girl, When I asked reason, He said, He didn't believed in Caste but he like the culture, Like waking early morning, yoga, bath wt cold water, etc etc He wanted to preserve that culture, so preferred same cast girl..

Your uncle may be a astronaut for all we care and he can marry who he wants but don't try to justify this caste system shit here. The cast system is the opposite of good culture and its medieval nonsense dreamt up by some primitive idiots.
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Sajit Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

(22-08-2010 11:04 AM)ayyawar Wrote:  This is really interesting experience, I want to share with you guyz,,

Since i'm graduated and working, my parents thought, its right time to get married...

They been looking for girls for me in india, When they find a girl, List of things they do.

1) Is she belongs to same caste.

2) does kundali matches


I kinda like might little bit agree with caste system, its not that i believe caste system, its just both might have same food habits and tastes, that might help in happy married life.


But one thing i do really hate is kundali, they check compatibility based on some stupid system, which doesn't have any sort of proof nor evidence. Why can't we just look at person character, education qualification, core values etc to determine person.. when i started look into it, one of cousin, she is 34 years old now, she didn't married cuz she has some kujadosham.. no one was willing to marry her..

when i started to look into deeply, the astrology and kundali was deep routed into our culture, no one really wants to break it...

This is really pathetic..

You know what is pathetic? A guy who cannot find a woman to marry for the right reasons and has to listen to his parents who insist on primitive ideas. You need to have the balls to tell them that you do not believe in kundali and caste. If you don't have the balls, do not marry a girl and make her life miserable with such close minded parents.
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donatello Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

(22-08-2010 08:36 PM)ayyawar Wrote:  Yeah, I sound like apologist here, But I was comparing 2 things kundali and caste system, I thought kundali way worst, Seriously I don't support caste system, I really hate it, at same time i don't stop one practicing cast system.

When you say that you don't stop one from practising the caste system, what do you mean really?

Do you know what the caste system means to millions in India? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_UnVZT0-0k

You position of not stopping one from practising the caste system does not seem to be passive inaction. It seems to be deliberate. How can you take such a position? Are you saying, "I don't like it, I don't practise it, but others need it"?

Aditya Manthramurthy
Web Administrator & Associate Editor
Nirmukta.com
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Ajita Kamal Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

As has been said many times in the past, religion is often praised and defended for its ability to save people from religion.

This conversation on the caste system follows a similar vein.

Quote:I kinda like might little bit agree with caste system, its not that i believe caste system, its just both might have same food habits and tastes, that might help in happy married life.


The reason someone ends up liking aspects of tradition such as food and ritual is because of cultural reinforcement. Why do you think you have the same traditions as someone of your caste? Yes, it is because of the caste system. I know, shocker.

More importantly, there are a couple of questionable assumptions in your argument:
1. For one to find a partner who has similar tastes in food one needs to look within one's own caste: Bullshit. Which century are we living in? A person of a particular caste living in Mumbai probably has more in common with a neighbor of a completely different caste than with someone of his/her caste living in a village miles away. You live in the US, and in your introductory post you mentioned going out with an American girl. You had differences with her, because of her religion. Yet you cannot see how you are being just as closed minded as her by your agreeing with the caste system, even if just a "little bit".
2. If you do indeed find someone within your own caste, you must support the caste system: Why can't you find someone using your desired criteria, but disown the caste system itself? Unless you really are into the whole caste thing there is no excuse for this. The "same food habits and tastes" argument is an excuse.

Just to show you how ridiculous this argument is, consider the same justification for something more sinister where you can clearly tell that one group of people is oppressed. Suppose we support segregation because is allows people with "same food habits and tastes" to get together. This is a silly argument now, but it was popular not so long ago in the US, when there was rampant racism and Black people were a second-class of citizenry. That mindset still lingers in the US, which is a major cause for hate. Endorsing the caste system in any form for such flimsy reasons is unacceptable.

"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
(This post was last modified: 23-08-2010 01:03 AM by Ajita Kamal.)
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ayyawar Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

(23-08-2010 01:02 AM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:  Just to show you how ridiculous this argument is, consider the same justification for something more sinister where you can clearly tell that one group of people is oppressed. Suppose we support segregation because is allows people with "same food habits and tastes" to get together. This is a silly argument now, but it was popular not so long ago in the US, when there was rampant racism and Black people were a second-class of citizenry. That mindset still lingers in the US, which is a major cause for hate. Endorsing the caste system in any form for such flimsy reasons is unacceptable.

Kamal, There is a difference between discussing and attack, if someone comes with a different view, 1st one has to remember is not to attack!

And try to understand different perceptive, you should watch this video first

http://vimeo.com/13704095


I just said based on food habits n taste on my experience, I never said i support cast system, Nor i never agreed with it, I could be totally wrong.. It was my just assumption that same caste people might have some common habits,

But it is always important to convey our message in polite way.. Like i said before, if you start arguing and attacking some different view, u will be no different than any religious fanatic.

When i was wt my girl, she never liked spicy food, She always had difficult time wt it, But still she used act like she likes it totally.. One day she made pot rost, I had hard time eating it, I faked it...

When you look into different races, There will always something different, of-course we never thought those are deal breakers, We can always work it out. It was fun working things out..

But just for sec i thought, food, habbits, taste might help in stronger relationship, Of-course we are living a world different spectrum of options... I agree with you But,

No matter what one will always end up in different view, that doesn't mean one should insult each other...
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Sajit Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

(23-08-2010 01:46 AM)ayyawar Wrote:  
(23-08-2010 01:02 AM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:  Just to show you how ridiculous this argument is, consider the same justification for something more sinister where you can clearly tell that one group of people is oppressed. Suppose we support segregation because is allows people with "same food habits and tastes" to get together. This is a silly argument now, but it was popular not so long ago in the US, when there was rampant racism and Black people were a second-class of citizenry. That mindset still lingers in the US, which is a major cause for hate. Endorsing the caste system in any form for such flimsy reasons is unacceptable.

Kamal, There is a difference between discussing and attack, if someone comes with a different view, 1st one has to remember is not to attack!

And try to understand different perceptive, you should watch this video first

http://vimeo.com/13704095


I just said based on food habits n taste on my experience, I never said i support cast system, Nor i never agreed with it, I could be totally wrong.. It was my just assumption that same caste people might have some common habits,

But it is always important to convey our message in polite way.. Like i said before, if you start arguing and attacking some different view, u will be no different than any religious fanatic.

When i was wt my girl, she never liked spicy food, She always had difficult time wt it, But still she used act like she likes it totally.. One day she made pot rost, I had hard time eating it, I faked it...

When you look into different races, There will always something different, of-course we never thought those are deal breakers, We can always work it out. It was fun working things out..

But just for sec i thought, food, habbits, taste might help in stronger relationship, Of-course we are living a world different spectrum of options... I agree with you But,

No matter what one will always end up in different view, that doesn't mean one should insult each other...

This is an appeal to emotion fallacy. Your ideas such as these will be attacked because you keep trying to justify the caste system.
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Ajita Kamal Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Kundali and Match fixing

(23-08-2010 01:46 AM)ayyawar Wrote:  
(23-08-2010 01:02 AM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:  Just to show you how ridiculous this argument is, consider the same justification for something more sinister where you can clearly tell that one group of people is oppressed. Suppose we support segregation because is allows people with "same food habits and tastes" to get together. This is a silly argument now, but it was popular not so long ago in the US, when there was rampant racism and Black people were a second-class of citizenry. That mindset still lingers in the US, which is a major cause for hate. Endorsing the caste system in any form for such flimsy reasons is unacceptable.

Kamal, There is a difference between discussing and attack, if someone comes with a different view, 1st one has to remember is not to attack!

And try to understand different perceptive, you should watch this video first

http://vimeo.com/13704095

I just said based on food habits n taste on my experience, I never said i support cast system, Nor i never agreed with it, I could be totally wrong.. It was my just assumption that same caste people might have some common habits,

But it is always important to convey our message in polite way.. Like i said before, if you start arguing and attacking some different view, u will be no different than any religious fanatic.

ayyawar,

Firstly, you have not addressed anything that I said, and instead are construing my reasoned arguments that addressed your ideas as an attack on you. This is a common misunderstanding that is usually seen among religious apologists, and sometimes from other atheists. In essence, you are ignoring the distinction between criticism of ideas and criticism of people. Please read this thread:

http://nirmukta.net/Thread-Is-Richard-Da...s-Arrogant

Secondly, I have seen the Phil Plait video, and it's a piece of crap that begins with a personal attack and constitutes a drawn out straw-man fallacy.
Read this: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/...lusion.php

Also, read this:
http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/20...-dick.html

Quote:During Phil Plait's talk at TAM 8, he took an informal poll:

"Let me ask you a question: how many of you here today used to believe in something ā€” used to, past tense ā€” whether it was flying saucers, psychic powers, religion, anything like that? You can raise your hand if you want to. [lots of hands go up] Not everyone is born a skeptic. A lot of you raised your hand. Iā€™d even say most of you, from what I can tell.
Now let me ask you a second question: how many of you no longer believe in those things, and you became a skeptic, because somebody got in your face, screaming, and called you an idiot, brain-damaged, and a retard? [Very few hands go up]"

First of all, who is Phil talking about? This seems a bit quixotic and exaggerated to me. Where are these people who scream in your face on behalf of skepticism? Where are these people whose primary tactic is to yell at someone and call them a retard? Since Phil didn't provide any examples to support the claim, we can only guess.

Secondly, this is a prime example of a straw man argument - setting up an issue that is easily toppled instead of the actual issue. Not only has he not provided specific examples, or demonstrated that this is a significant problem, he seems to be engaging in an extremely flawed informal poll (read: emotional appeal) to get his point across. The first question is a fair skeptical inquiry (have you changed your mind about something?). The second question is about as far from it as one can possibly stray.

Of course most people don't simply abandon their beliefs because someone got in their face and called them names. Better questions would be:
- how many of you changed your position after having your beliefs challenged by someone else?
- how many of you changed your mind after having heated discussions?
- how many of you changed your minds after being offended?
- how many of you were prompted to be more skeptical of your position after seeing other people embarrassed by their attempts to defend a view you accepted?
- how many of you have only changed your mind as the result of people treating your beliefs with kid gloves?

In any case, you have just demonstrated your inability to argue without making a personal attack, because in effect, pointing me to that video is your snide way of calling me a dick. THAT is a personal attack. Plait and you call PEOPLE dicks. I and those like Dawkins do no such thing. We attack ideas, not people. Please learn the difference. Ideas deserve no respect, but people do.

Thirdly, you never said that you support the caste system, and neither did I. I said you endorsing it in any form is unacceptable, which is certainly what you were doing when you said "I kinda like might little bit agree with caste system". I clearly pointed out the assumptions in your argument that are not realistic, while you are pointing to an assumption that I never mentioned. Of course people of the same caste "might have some common habits". Duh. If you think this is one of the assumptions that I was talking about, you are sadly mistaken. This is a true assumption, and in fact, it is a completely redundant point. Of course people of the same caste can have same habits. People of any group can have common habits. This has nothing to do with the assumptions that I pointed out that are not necessarily true! In effect, you're using a true assumption to mask the fallacies in your false assumptions. This is a straw man- red herring. Please address the actual arguments, instead of putting words in my mouth.

Regarding politeness, please point to the exact words in my original post that were impolite. I will show you again why you are confusing between criticism of ideas and criticism of people. Bad ideas do not deserve respect. But since you have failed to make this distinction, you are forcing me to argue against your behavior rather than against your arguments. So now you are forcing me to get personal.

The worst thing that you said is this: "Like i said before, if you start arguing and attacking some different view, u will be no different than any religious fanatic. "

Scientists are always arguing and attacking views that they do not agree with. This is called the quest for knowledge, among people who care about the truth. It is religious moderates who are unable to see that some ideas deserve no respect.

So, lets see. You have called me a dick and "no different from a religious fanatic", both falsely, because of an inability to differentiate between people and ideas. In this post I have responded in kind to you. Instead of tussling with you again, you are getting a warning (this is temporary). Please stick to arguing about facts and ideas from now forward, and leave the attacks on people to the religious fundies. We are building a community of freethinkers here, and there are many hurdles that have to be crossed to make this work. You are here arguing against people who have put in a lot of time and energy into this community. Please respect us as people, and you will be respected and welcomed with open arms. We need all kinds of freethinkers from India to work together to build our movement. But there will always be people, both religious and not, who are more of an impediment to our goals. I hope that you will not be one of those.

"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
(This post was last modified: 23-08-2010 10:07 AM by Ajita Kamal.)
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