Milk Drinking Statues / Hindu Religious periods

[Matthew Ellard]

My name is Matthew. I am an Australian skeptic. I am a member of the Skeptic Society's internet forum. I am asking for assistance.

The Problem
In previous years, it has been claimed that Hindu statues "drank milk". The Indian Directorate of the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) and the Science and Rationalists' Association of India have issued press releases sensibly stating that this was due to capillary action. This makes sense.

We have an American Hindu join the Skeptic Society's forum. He is religious. He claims that the capillary action that gives the illusion that statues "drinking milk" has stopped and that no one in the world, today, can perform the illusion using Hindu statues of any type.

My Question
Does any member here have a video or similar type of evidence link to any Hindu state, anywhere, "drinking milk" ( or any other liquid) that is not tasking place on a Hindu festival day? My aim is to show one example and thus end this false claim.

Notes
Here is the discussion on the Skeptic Society forum.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=20720

I have read the scientific explanations from The Indian Directorate of the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR)[/i] and the Science and Rationalists' Association of India and I agree with and understand their observations.

Here is an example of a Hindu state "drinking milk" in 1995.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzhfPSxkdb4

Thanks everyone. Sorry to be a pain by asking for your help. I'm a nice bloke and I grew up in Kerala as my parents lectured there.

[Captain Mandrake]

Quote:
He claims that the capillary action that gives the illusion that statues "drinking milk" has stopped and that no one in the world, today, can perform the illusion using Hindu statues of any type.

........

Does any member here have a video or similar type of evidence link to any Hindu state, anywhere, "drinking milk" ( or any other liquid) that is not tasking place on a Hindu festival day? My aim is to show one example and thus end this false claim.

Let us say there is a video (dated today July 18 2013) that shows Hindu statues sucking up liquid. Now what will prevent your Hindu friend from claiming that as of today the statues have started to drink milk. We should not be entertaining people like your Hindu friend. Perhaps the onus is on him to identity a statue that drank milk in the 1990s and demonstrate that it (with out any modification) does not do so today.

[arvindiyer]

I am with Captain Madrake on where the burden of proof lies, and that such demands needn't be dignified with a response.

Now that a thread has been begun on the milk-guzzling statue episode, I might as well archive a comment from an Nirmukta Facebook comment trail (unavailable currently, but providing the link just in case).

***********
I too was a kid when this happened and remember it like yesterday.

Quoting from here*

Quote:Arguments about costs of rituals can force a rethink in many. I remember how, during the hoopla about Ganesha idols drinking milk when I was a curious schoolkid in around 1995, my mom refused to give me a drop more than a few spoonfuls of milk to try in my Ganesha milk-feeding 'experiment' then! Good old kitchen management commonsense can be an ally of rationalism.

Thinking about this transports me right back to a sixth-grade classroom in Mumbai, where my science teacher, one of the greatest educators and science evangelists I have known, to her credit went off-script and devoted one whole period to discuss the milk miracle. She counseled first seeking scientific explanations for everything in order to avoid being fooled by fake miracles. The very use of the term 'fake' miracles seemed designed to allow wiggle room for believers of 'real miracles', but I wouldn't at all judge my teacher harshly given that she was teaching in a missionary-run school with an overwhelmingly Hindu student body, and a figurine of Jesus peering down upon the proceedings from a wall-mounted crucifix that was a permanent fixture in all classrooms.

In homes, this was the first time a generation of school-goers was introduced to the rationalist movement in India, through the television appearances of Sanal Edamaruku. In all neighborhoods, the tall tale contest of the season was of kids competing with each other on claiming how many liters of milk their household Ganapati drank. It also must be said though, that peppering conversation with terms like 'surface tension' (unintelligible to most pre-teens but too sciencey to leave unsaid) and names like 'Sanal Edamaruku' (aptly exotic-sounding and memorable for schoolchildren) would also earn us schoolchildren some street cred! Those were the days!

Are things better today 16 years down the line? We had national television featuring Sanal Edamaruku during the milk miracle, and today...we have Jaggi Vasudev invited to hold forth on the Higgs Boson!
***********

Thankfully, what Jaggi Vasudev is saying is not being spared debunking.
Jaggi Vasudev doesn't understand Science (or the nature of the Universe)

In case you would like to contact rationalist spokespersons like Narendra Nayak or Sanal Edamaruku for guidance regarding how to respond to claims like milk-miracles, I (or other regulars here I am sure) will be glad to provide contact-details via private messages.

[Matthew Ellard]

(19-Jul-2013, 08:58 AM)Captain Mandrake Wrote: Let us say there is a video (dated today July 18 2013) that shows Hindu statues sucking up liquid. Now what will prevent your Hindu friend from claiming that as of today the statues have started to drink milk.

You are correct. I have discovered videos of Hindu statues "drinking milk" five days after a Hindu religious festival date. The "wooist" making the claim cannot explain this but claims it was "near enough". However he has made a firm claim that "No Hindu statue would be drinking today" (as in, not near a Hindu festival date). My aim is to flaw his claim on this issue and thus end his entire thread quickly.

(19-Jul-2013, 08:58 AM)Captain Mandrake Wrote: We should not be entertaining people like your Hindu friend. Perhaps the onus is on him to identity a statue that drank milk in the 1990s and demonstrate that it (with out any modification) does not do so today.

My problem is that the illusion is most probably caused by capillary action. Therefore, the 1995 statues will probably absorb liquids again today. in the same manner. However this is a good thing. If I show any statue "drinking milk" far away from a Hindu religious festival day then this ends his fundamental claim.

[Matthew Ellard]

(19-Jul-2013, 09:18 AM)arvindiyer Wrote: I am with Captain Madrake on where the burden of proof lies, and that such demands needn't be dignified with a response.

Yes I agree. My fellow skeptics, on the forum, are saying that the burden of proof remains on the person making the claim. However I am taking the view that I am finding two or three examples that don't fit into his claim and thus the claim is false.

(I know this is probably a waste of time....but I enjoy ruining the claims of religious people which are obviously rubbish)

(19-Jul-2013, 09:18 AM)arvindiyer Wrote: Are things better today 16 years down the line? We had national television featuring Sanal Edamaruku during the milk miracle, and today...we have Jaggi Vasudev invited to hold forth on the Higgs Boson!

I'm finding it difficult to determine the actual dates the "milk miracle" occurred on, using normal media. My aim was to actually do some basic checking to determine if all the previous "milk days" took place on Hindu religious festival days. Unfortunately, there is not enough information on the internet to do this.

(19-Jul-2013, 09:18 AM)arvindiyer Wrote: In case you would like to contact rationalist spokespersons like Narendra Nayak or Sanal Edamaruku for guidance regarding how to respond to claims like milk-miracles, I (or other regulars here I am sure) will be glad to provide contact-details via private messages.

Thank you for this offer. I don't want to bother a good person doing good things with a trivial question. Therefore I will film myself "feeding milk" ( via capillary action or just flowing down the side) to a Hindu stone statue I have at home and use that as evidence. Sadly my stone statues are from Bali and not India and therefore the "wooist" will probably say "not authentic" or some other cop out.

I will post the video here as well as the Skeptic Society forum. I have to set up a You tube account and actually film it first.

Thank you for helping and nice to meet you. If I can do anything for you and your fellow members, in Australia just ask.

[Matthew Ellard]

For your entertainment. Here is a toy pig "drinking milk" on You-Tube. It was used as an example that the illusion is simply capillary action. It is very silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...DgBW9oJofw

[deusex]

Now where did I place my granite Cthulhu statue? Once he starts sucking up milk you can be sure that the time of the Great Old Ones is nigh!