Milk, Meat and General Nutrition - Science vs Myth
#1
i can't find any trusted source regarding my queries related to nutrition,diet,medicine any pointers?
Reply
#2
latest is this
(18-Feb-2011, 02:22 AM)Ajita Kamal Wrote: Excellent list, Tarun!

(18-Feb-2011, 01:41 AM)tarun Wrote: 46. Not consuming milk and mutton during the same meal. I guess this has Jewish roots. I remember reading something about "not boiling the kid in its mother's milk" in the Old Testament.

I suspect that there are quite a few superstitions that we have borrowed, and a whole lot that we have exported. Some, such as the one about bringing bad luck by walking across a cat's path and the one about walking under ladders are both almost universal today.
from here
even i believed that one i always thought If u drink milk after chicken/mutton then u may have skin diseases and your whole skin gets white spots , i lost my vegetarian virginity just a few months back so i obviously i had to trust everything my non-vegetarian friends had to say so temme is it fine to have milk after/before chicken/mutton?
Reply
#3
(13-Jun-2011, 10:25 PM)lalitmohanchawla Wrote: from here
even i believed that one i always thought If u drink milk after chicken/mutton then u may have skin diseases and your whole skin gets white spots , i lost my vegetarian virginity just a few months back so i obviously i had to trust everything my non-vegetarian friends had to say so temme is it fine to have milk after/before chicken/mutton?

Firstly, let me say I have no hard evidence.

That said, there are tons of dishes that use both milk and chicken/mutton in the recipes. In India some mutton or chicken kurmas have milk or cream in them. There's a popular dish called Malai Kebob (you might have heard of it Wink ) which is one of the chicken preparations that are marinated in milk or milk products. Butter chicken is another one that comes to mind where milk products are used in the preparation. In the West, practically everyone eats meat with some milk product or the other. Burgers (whether chicken or beef) are often eaten with slices of cheese. Cold cuts (ham, sausage, salami etc) are also often eaten with cheese. In traditional Italian and French cooking many types of creamy sauces are served over chicken and other non-vegetarian preparations.

Meat and milk are both high in proteins and fats. Unless you have lactose intolerance or just cannot handle proteins or fats in general, it seems unlikely that eating milk and meat in combination would be harmful. Of course, there may be exceptions on an individual basis, and some people may have unique reactions.

I think Bobby Krishna in our facebook group is an expert in the field of nutrition science.
"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
[+] 1 user Likes Ajita Kamal's post
Reply
#4
Ajita you are spot on. I am no expert but I do have a passing interest in nutrition from a sporting angle. One good no bullshit resource is Lyle Mcdonald's work and his website is http://www.bodyrecomposition.com

I also don't think physicians in general are the best for dietary advice, a dietician is a better bet. Most doctors go by diets meant for rehab. Young and active people are better off following advice from the likes of Lyle Mcdonald.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
Reply
#5
lalitmohanchawla Wrote:even i believed that one i always thought If u drink milk after chicken/mutton then u may have skin diseases and your whole skin gets white spots , i lost my vegetarian virginity just a few months back so i obviously i had to trust everything my non-vegetarian friends had to say so temme is it fine to have milk after/before chicken/mutton?

I was always told that if you consume fish with milk you'd get Vitiligo. It still is a popular belief in Indian subcontinent (might be related to Ayurveda?). Been there, done that, nothing happened - well except everyone else freaked out.

Mixing meat and milk is indeed prohibited according to Jewish law. It never ceases to amaze me the credulity of people even in this age when it comes to believe in superstitions from ancient cultures. Onions and garlic are believed to promote ignorance (lol *cough*) and criminal tendencies according to our good-ol' Ayurveda.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere milk may cause iron malabsorption, a quick search suggests different views on this (1, 2). So unless you have iron deficiency and were planning to consume meat for the purpose to increase your iron levels, I see no reason why you can't take them together. That and given that you have no allergy to milk (not same as lactose intolerance) or meat.
[+] 1 user Likes Myst's post
Reply
#6
Ajita, yoghurt for me is a collection of protien carb and fat and so is meat. Do they react with each other? No. but, indians don't eat meat as meat. We cook with all sort of spices, fry it or curry it unlike western cuisines. Spices can cause indigestion, irritation to gastrointestinal tract. What if we take yoghurt along? This will lead us to an endless list of questions with little or no information/research. My specialisation after food science is food safety and that's quiet different from nutritional science. I am more qualified to talk about the E coli outbreak in Germany and the melamine contamination in china but not the obesity or diabetes related issues. But, you don't need to be a nutritional expert to figure out that a lot of these recommendations are dump. FAO has published a lot of articles based on research done with the help of indian experts. There are several interesting myths. While some are harmless, there are some that can have serious implications on infant and child nutrition. Nutritional science is one of the least developed of sciences. A major disadvantage being the huge environmental component that makes studies complex. No one can clearly say that yoghurt and meat can cause disease or not because what works for some need not work fo others unless these are the only two foods that we eat and the environemnt that the subjects face is the same, and we have the same rate of metabolism and we spend the same energy and we have the same energy input output ratio. And the most important question- how much should I eat and how often to get into trouble? Forget ths, we are not even sure whether dietary cholestrol has any link to heart diseases. What should people do? A balanced diet is certainly proven to work for a lot of people. Its easy to say what to eat rather than what not. US FDA- has the center for Food Sciene and Nutrition division that gives very good advice on diet. FAO has a lot of info on diet in developing countries. Harvard, john hopkins publishes data on nutrition, epecially. Relevant to heart disease prevention and diabetes. In india, we have a research centre in hyderabad. I wouldn't trust ayurveda recommendations that are not evidence based. It works for him, so will work for me and vice versa rule cannot be applied. Most of the stuff is faith based and easy to disprove.
[+] 3 users Like bobbykrishna's post
Reply
#7
thanks for your inputs ,
another question is can i drink milk directly from packet without boiling it? I am talking about packeted cow/single/double/ toned milk, like Mother Dairy i have done that in hostel when i was too lazy to boil it , but we never have milk at home without boiling , is it necessary with brands like mother diary?

also there is trend of replacing cow's milk with soya milk, is it a healthier subsitute? considering there is a lot of controversy there are critics but also support mostly by animal lovers on ethical grounds but also regarding their benefits
Reply
#8
(14-Jun-2011, 03:50 PM)lalitmohanchawla Wrote: thanks for your inputs ,
another question is can i drink milk directly from packet without boiling it? I am talking about packeted cow/single/double/ toned milk, like Mother Dairy i have done that in hostel when i was too lazy to boil it , but we never have milk at home without boiling , is it necessary with brands like mother diary?

Pasteurization of milk is absolutely essential, and saves a lot of lives. There are potentially many species of deadly bacteria that will be killed by the process of boiling milk. Now, the milk delivered in packets is usually pasteurized, but I wouldn't trust the quality standards in India. In the US no one boils milk. Its always used straight out of the carton/jug that its sold in. But the quality standards set by the FDA here are very high.

Quote:also there is trend of replacing cow's milk with soya milk, is it a healthier subsitute? considering there is a lot of controversy there are critics but also support mostly by animal lovers on ethical grounds but also regarding their benefits

Soy milk is definitely marketed for vegans and vegetarians, but its most important role, IMO, is that its a good substitute for those with lactose intolerance. Of course, there are also those with soy allergies. As for the nutritional facts, I'm sure you can find them online. I would venture that you should be skeptical of most of the information on this, as you are. The numbers are bound to vary by manufacturing method, processing of the milk etc. In developed countries there are many types of milk you can buy, with different quantities of the original components of milk. In the end it will probably be some specific brand/type of milk that works for you.
"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
Reply
#9
Pasteurization is an interesting process. Under ideal conditions, it kills 99.999% of viable microorganisms. so if a cup of milk has 100,000 tuberculosis causing bacteria, pasteurization will bring it down to 1 per cup( not zero). Though this sounds like a big reduction in number, in microbiology, this is not a perfect killing step for pathogens unlike retorting and sterilization that gives a much higher reduction. Pasteurization reduces, but doe not eliminate all. If we start with a higher number, we will always end with a higher number.

As Ajita rightly said, I do not trust the pasteurization process in India as small failures in equipment can lead to 'cold regions' in milk that might go unpasteurized. Moreover, the initial counts of bacteria in milk in India are also pretty high and so, I will end up with a higher number in the end. There is something more important than the process and that is the post pasteurization handling. Once pasteurized, we should keep the milk chilled below 5 Deg C so that the heat resistant bacteria that survives pasteurization do not grow. This is often a challenge in India as our milk is normally handled and delivered at room temperature. The bacteria that survives heating can grow easily because there is no competition from other organisms ( most are killed during pasteurization) and if a pathogen survives, they can get to a very higher number in less than a couple of hours. If we consume that milk, we are in trouble.
I have seen some studies done in India in the past that shows high prevalence of disease causing E Coli in cows in Calcutta and have read a few news articles about their prevalence in Mumbai as well.
We may lose some nutrients during a double heating process, but still I wouldn't risk drinking milk straight out of the pouch in India.
Note: Wehn you re heat milk, reheat it thoroughly and get to atleast 80 Deg C.

[+] 2 users Like bobbykrishna's post
Reply
#10
Lalit
How much pasteurized milk do you drink in a day?
How much water do you drink in a day?
How much of raw vegetables and fruits do you eat in a day?

It is hard to say whether you should abandon drinking milk, but I am curious to know whether you are exposed to other risks that needs more attention/careful choice.

Bobby




(14-Jun-2011, 03:50 PM)lalitmohanchawla Wrote: thanks for your inputs ,
another question is can i drink milk directly from packet without boiling it? I am talking about packeted cow/single/double/ toned milk, like Mother Dairy i have done that in hostel when i was too lazy to boil it , but we never have milk at home without boiling , is it necessary with brands like mother diary?

also there is trend of replacing cow's milk with soya milk, is it a healthier subsitute? considering there is a lot of controversy there are critics but also support mostly by animal lovers on ethical grounds but also regarding their benefits

Reply
#11
bobbykrishna I also want to trouble you for some milk advice. smile Is the UHT milk safe/safer to drink? I'm talking about the poly-pack things that last a few weeks if left sealed, and you only need to refrigerate once opened. That's what I've been having for years... without boiling it.
Reply
#12
I've edited the title of the thread to reflect the specific topics being discussed. Please everyone, be accurate and specific with the thread titles, because it really matters when indexing and searching for different topics.
The thread has also been moved to the general science section.
"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Myths messing up Mainstream science MsSensibility 1 4,495 31-Oct-2017, 01:37 PM
Last Post: Wisner
  "Western Science" and "Eastern Mysticism" - Framing Issues Ajita Kamal 3 9,926 19-Aug-2012, 06:26 AM
Last Post: arvindiyer
  Science blogs you follow Lije 6 5,560 30-Oct-2011, 12:32 AM
Last Post: Alan D'Souza
  Sci-fi Science- Imagining the Future Ajita Kamal 11 9,108 17-Jun-2011, 03:12 AM
Last Post: LMC



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)