Neuro State: The God Experience
#13
(18-Feb-2013, 07:26 PM)MeltedFlame Wrote: What more could you want than what that Dr. H(?) said: You channel energy into specific areas of the brain and the outcome is such and such.
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What does 'channel energy into specific areas of the brain' mean? Is it the extraordinary and unsubstantiated claim that human beings can voluntary traffic glucose preferentially to different brain regions in a manner that can be visualized via a BOLD signal? Also, unless one is buying into some Cartesian Dualism,who's the 'you' apart from the brain that 'channels' this 'energy' voluntarily?

Hello,

I'm sorry, I realise I was being very short in my replies.

If you know of the god experience, then you know Stanley Koren and Michael Persinger created a device to stimulate some of the cells within the temporal lobes. Mr Persinger found that if you target specific areas on the right side of the brain with magnetic energy, it would create an experience.

I am here to tell you that via meditation do you can do the same thing. This experience happened to me during meditation and it was 3 days later the documentary came on TV and stunned me, because the girl on the programme described her experience. It was like my own.

I'm not well educated, my vocabulary isn't wide, and I'm not a great reader of science. I started reading this thread and realised it was quite a skeptical subject, so I didn't want to be the only user so confident about this topic. I believe on that day this experience happened to me; I targeted those areas.

When I knew I targeted this area, I felt the change, felt the presence and was sure I was in the company of something(it was like my thoughts were being read by quite a few people), I didn't want to waste their time and went into a mild panic because I hadn't had anything prepared to ask/tell them; in my head I said "now I am here I don't know what to ask you" and then I found the question of "have I done enough?" and instantly a thought came into my head reassuring me(specifically it said: you have done all you can do), I said thank you, and then flames appeared(just like the girls in the tv programme) and It had ended.
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#14
(28-Feb-2013, 03:14 AM)MeltedFlame Wrote: If you know of the god experience, then you know Stanley Koren and Michael Persinger created a device to stimulate some of the cells within the temporal lobes. Mr Persinger found that if you target specific areas on the right side of the brain with magnetic energy, it would create an experience.

The God helmet you are talking about seems to have a lot of problems. The mystic experience had nothing to do with the magnetic field and was explained by suggestibility ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestibility ). See the quote below from the wikipedia link ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet ) about an independent study of this God helmet.

Quote:In December 2004 Nature reported that a group of Swedish researchers led by Pehr Granqvist, a psychologist at Uppsala University in Sweden, had attempted to replicate Persinger's experiments under double-blind conditions, and were not able to reproduce the effect.[8] The study was published in Neuroscience Letters in 2005.[10] Granqvist et al concluded that the presence or absence of the magnetic field had no relationship with any religious or spiritual experience reported by the participants, but was predicted entirely by their suggestibility and personality traits. Persinger, however, takes issue with the Swedish attempts to replicate his work. "They didn't replicate it, not even close," he says.[8] He argues that the Swedish group did not expose the subjects to magnetic fields for long enough to produce an effect. Granqvist et al. respond that Persinger agreed with their proposed methodology beforehand[40] and they stand by their replication.[12]
The theoretical basis for the God helmet, especially the connection between temporal lobe function and mystic experiences,[41][42] has also been questioned.[5]


But just for the sake of the argument let us assume that the God helmet actually works, ie exposure of the temporal lobe to the magnetic field leads to mystical experience.

Let us now move to your experience.

(28-Feb-2013, 03:14 AM)MeltedFlame Wrote: I am here to tell you that via meditation do you can do the same thing. This experience happened to me during meditation and it was 3 days later the documentary came on TV and stunned me, because the girl on the programme described her experience. It was like my own.

I'm not well educated, my vocabulary isn't wide, and I'm not a great reader of science. I started reading this thread and realised it was quite a skeptical subject, so I didn't want to be the only user so confident about this topic. I believe on that day this experience happened to me; I targeted those areas.

What do you mean you targeted those areas? Did you also expose your temporal lobe to magnetic field? Can you explain what contraption you used to generate the magnetic field and how did you direct it to your temporal lobe.

Or did you just mediate and concentrated hard and thought about targeting your temporal lobe? With out exposure to magnetic field you could not have had the experience that the God helmet supposedly provides.

My hypothesis is that the experience you describe is nothing but hallucination.

Also there is nothing stunning about two people having the same affliction. It is very much like two people having a similar migraine or stomach ache. Nothing special. In the case of you and the girl from tv it was hallucination.
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#15
Quote:What do you mean you targeted those areas?
Did you also expose your temporal lobe to magnetic field?
Can you explain what contraption you used to generate the magnetic field and how did you direct it to your temporal lobe.
Or did you just mediate and concentrated hard and thought about targeting your temporal lobe? With out exposure to magnetic field you could not have had the experience that the God helmet supposedly provides.

My hypothesis is that the experience you describe is nothing but hallucination.

Also there is nothing stunning about two people having the same affliction. It is very much like two people having a similar migraine or stomach ache. Nothing special. In the case of you and the girl from tv it was hallucination.

I was completely unaware what I was targeting, I'm just saying that if I had the exact experience as the girl did, and she wore a device that somebody else programmed to target these areas; he must have some knowledge of why and which areas. It must be that these areas were "activated/reached/touched/viabrated/whatever you want to call it."

Let me agree with you for the sake of the discussion; it was an hallucination - If we are all able to have the same hallucination; knowing what it did to me, I hope that some day everybody will have one.

affliction in what sense?

I guess it's pretty common - so I've read; to have 8 people have dose's of DMT and experience the same outer body experience, but then when it is knowledge that 2 people "meditate" one with a surge of power/energy and one without, and then they both have the same experience.

I'm not debating the logicality or semantics of it any more - believe whatever you want, I was only trying to help you experience what I did.
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#16
MeltedFlame,

Before I spend too much time responding to your post please clarify what do you mean by the following quotes of yours that contradict each other.

(28-Feb-2013, 03:14 AM)MeltedFlame Wrote: When I knew I targeted this area....

(28-Feb-2013, 06:19 PM)MeltedFlame Wrote: I was completely unaware what I was targeting......

Now, please answer the following questions.

1) Did you or did you not target temporal lobes of your brain?

2) If you did please explain in detail how did you target it? In the case of the God Helmet guys solenoids were placed next to the temporal lobes. Even though independent study showed that their demonstration was not replicable the God helmet guys at least had the means to target somethings on to the temporal lobes. With out the help of a contraption like the God helmet how and with what did you target the temporal lobes?
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#17
(01-Mar-2013, 09:59 AM)Captain Mandrake Wrote: MeltedFlame,

Before I spend too much time responding to your post please clarify what do you mean by the following quotes of yours that contradict each other.

(28-Feb-2013, 03:14 AM)MeltedFlame Wrote: When I knew I targeted this area....

(28-Feb-2013, 06:19 PM)MeltedFlame Wrote: I was completely unaware what I was targeting......

Now, please answer the following questions.

1) Did you or did you not target temporal lobes of your brain?

2) If you did please explain in detail how did you target it? In the case of the God Helmet guys solenoids were placed next to the temporal lobes. Even though independent study showed that their demonstration was not replicable the God helmet guys at least had the means to target somethings on to the temporal lobes. With out the help of a contraption like the God helmet how and with what did you target the temporal lobes?

Please, be aware since I am responding to your request of clarification in the light I have read #2; you are really testing my patience. I hope you appreciate what I am about to reply with....
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#18
(01-Mar-2013, 09:59 AM)Captain Mandrake Wrote: MeltedFlame,

Before I spend too much time responding to your post please clarify what do you mean by the following quotes of yours that contradict each other.

(28-Feb-2013, 03:14 AM)MeltedFlame Wrote: When I knew I targeted this area....

(28-Feb-2013, 06:19 PM)MeltedFlame Wrote: I was completely unaware what I was targeting......

Now, please answer the following questions.

1) Did you or did you not target temporal lobes of your brain?

2) If you did please explain in detail how did you target it? In the case of the God Helmet guys solenoids were placed next to the temporal lobes. Even though independent study showed that their demonstration was not replicable the God helmet guys at least had the means to target somethings on to the temporal lobes. With out the help of a contraption like the God helmet how and with what did you target the temporal lobes?


# Paragraph 1

I am here to tell you that via meditation do you can do the same thing. This experience happened to me during meditation and it was 3 days later the documentary came on TV and stunned me, because the girl on the programme described her experience. It was like my own.

# Paragraph 2

I believe on that day this experience happened to me; I targeted those areas.

# Paragraph 3

When I knew I targeted this area, I felt the change, felt the presence and was sure I was in the company of something


In paragraph #1

you will know that: it happened to me during meditation, I have wrote these paragraphs in the knowledge that the god helmet exsists and everything it is capable of.

HENCE (the speculation of): paragraph #2: Speculation, of my own experience, AFTER viewing the TV show.

Because Paragraph #3 is following Paragraph #2, I am still under the impression the reader has gained knowledge of my speculation; in the speculation I was aware of the helmets energy location, after watching the TV show. if the reader didn't he should of read it like "when I knew the experience was starting."


Incase you thought I wasn't clear on answering your questions,

Meditation. [in complete darkness, in complete silence]
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#19
MeltedFlame,

From your post it is still not clear whether or not you targeted the temporal lobes. In case you did target the temporal lobes what you targeted it with is also not clear.

Please be clear. I repeat the questions. It will be helpful if you provide specific answers to the questions.

1) Did you target the temporal lobes?

2) If you did target the temporal lobes then what did you target it with?

3) If you were asked to target the frontal lobes instead of the temporal lobes how would you modify your targeting process?
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#20
(01-Mar-2013, 03:09 PM)MeltedFlame Wrote: Meditation. [in complete darkness, in complete silence]

The portion in brackets 'in complete darkness, in complete silence' suggests that the active ingredient in the experience reported as 'meditation', has been 'sensory deprivation' and 'perceptual isolation'. Sensory deprivation is the subject of active study both in therapeutic and less benign settings, and has been shown to be associated with subsequent hallucinations. Perceptual isolation is common in mystical traditions and according to Dr. V S Ramachandran may contribute to the recurring themes in religious literature of derealization and depersonalization ('illusory world' and 'vanishing individual boundaries'), which maybe seen as responses to the abnormal sensory environments of the sort created by isolation or other reasons. 'Meditation' has become too much of a catch-all term for distinct phenomena deserving study in their own right such as sensory deprivation or mere exposure or a broad class of autonomic relaxation responses. Use of a mystifying ill-defined term only serves the purpose of obscurantists of different hues.
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#21
(02-Mar-2013, 01:37 AM)Captain Mandrake Wrote: MeltedFlame,

From your post it is still not clear whether or not you targeted the temporal lobes. In case you did target the temporal lobes what you targeted it with is also not clear.

Please be clear. I repeat the questions. It will be helpful if you provide specific answers to the questions.

1) Did you target the temporal lobes?

2) If you did target the temporal lobes then what did you target it with?

3) If you were asked to target the frontal lobes instead of the temporal lobes how would you modify your targeting process?

Hi again,

Are we clear that I did not contradict myself in the previous posts?

1) Going off the information I gained from the TV programme(introducing me to the helmet device and explaining what area of the brain he is/was targeting AND THEN listening to the girls experience this event).

I am going to say, yes, I targeted the some/if not all of the cells the helmet device targets. in the temporal lobe.

2) I targeted these areas through meditation, also I believe the past 3years of my life led me to aquire these targets. naturally. These stories remain private untill I believe I'm conversing with somebody who will respect what they are told.

3) Ah, good question.

After the experience and me exchange words in thoughts, after I was reassured, and after the slowly shimming flames disappeared - I had an over whelming outburst of happy and then sad emotion. I virtually smiled from eye to eye, then felt myself on the verge of laughter, and then a wave of overwhelming happiness resulting in sadness hit me and I almost burst out into tears, but held them back. It wasn't sad like somebody had just died or been in an accident, it was more sad because somebody had just given you their last breath so you could have your lungs healed from it; you know they have just done a great deed for you and you are eternally greatful. also quite sad.

These emotions I believe may have come from the frontal lobe, but that I could never be sure of. It was the one thing the girl lacked in the experience via the helmet. I remember her saying: after her time in the presence of the "presence", she experienced flames, but she didn't like them too much.

maybe it be a chemical indifference or that her life was entirely different. I don't know.

my experience of meditation always starts the same. I have meditated around 10 times, 2 of those times have been significant to my life. In my opinion, you can experience just two types of meditation and the rest of the meditation types are basic relaxation; If you meditate under the sun, you will see your inner-self, with images that are universal in context. If you meditate in a complete dark room, you will hear and feel your inner-self, with presences of universal status's.

so, back to answering your question specifically.

for the person whom wish to target the frontal lobe; I would suggest to them: meditate in the sun untill they see something they can relate with. wait days, while reminding yourself of what you saw untill you to know what you saw, why you saw it and what you have to do next. Then meditate in a dark room and it will come into question or experience and be repaired/cleansed/forgiven/reassured.


PS - does anybody know the name of the girl in the TV documentary?
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#22
MeltedFlame,

Ok, you first thought that you did not specifically target anything. Then you saw a TV program and thought that you had targeted the temporal lobes. In that sense there is no contradiction. I give you that.

Having said that, it is still not clear whether or not you targeted the temporal lobes by doing this.

Quote:I targeted these areas through meditation

This is not like the God Helmet guys claiming that they targeted the temporal lobes by placing a solenoid next to the temporal lobes. Whether their results can be trusted or not, given that the experiment has not been replicated, we can at least agree that there was a magnetic field produced by the solenoid next to the temporal lobes. In that sense the God helmet guys can claim they targeted the temporal lobes. Not sure if you are even making an attempt to understand what targeting means in your case. What in your meditation procedure targets the temporal lobes?

Now you tell me that you will target the frontal lobes by doing this.

Quote:for the person whom wish to target the frontal lobe; I would suggest to them: meditate in the sun untill they see something they can relate with. wait days, while reminding yourself of what you saw untill you to know what you saw, why you saw it and what you have to do next. Then meditate in a dark room and it will come into question or experience and be repaired/cleansed/forgiven/reassured.

Again what in the above procedure targets the frontal lobes? Just for kicks can you also explain how to target the parietal lobe and occipital lobe.
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#23
(03-Mar-2013, 09:30 PM)Captain Mandrake Wrote: MeltedFlame,

Ok, you first thought that you did not specifically target anything. Then you saw a TV program and thought that you had targeted the temporal lobes. In that sense there is no contradiction. I give you that.

Having said that, it is still not clear whether or not you targeted the temporal lobes by doing this.

Quote:I targeted these areas through meditation

This is not like the God Helmet guys claiming that they targeted the temporal lobes by placing a solenoid next to the temporal lobes. Whether their results can be trusted or not, given that the experiment has not been replicated, we can at least agree that there was a magnetic field produced by the solenoid next to the temporal lobes. In that sense the God helmet guys can claim they targeted the temporal lobes. Not sure if you are even making an attempt to understand what targeting means in your case. What in your meditation procedure targets the temporal lobes?

Now you tell me that you will target the frontal lobes by doing this.

Quote:for the person whom wish to target the frontal lobe; I would suggest to them: meditate in the sun untill they see something they can relate with. wait days, while reminding yourself of what you saw untill you to know what you saw, why you saw it and what you have to do next. Then meditate in a dark room and it will come into question or experience and be repaired/cleansed/forgiven/reassured.

Again what in the above procedure targets the frontal lobes? Just for kicks can you also explain how to target the parietal lobe and occipital lobe.

Who's you? I've already had my experience, I was merely giving an attempt at answering an "important" question of yours.

I believe I given you enough information to the questions you answered, without the specifics of science, and since you are trying to take me around in circles. I'll be off.

Enjoyed talking to you, Captain.
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#24
(04-Mar-2013, 12:48 AM)MeltedFlame Wrote: Who's you? I've already had my experience, I was merely giving an attempt at answering an "important" question of yours.

I believe I given you enough information to the questions you answered, without the specifics of science, and since you are trying to take me around in circles. I'll be off.

Enjoyed talking to you, Captain.

You started the discussion about targeting specific areas of the brain with the following post.

Quote:What more could you want than what Dr. H(?) said: You channel energy into specific areas of the brain and the outcome, is such and such.

But in the subsequent posts you were not able to explain how is that you channeled energy into specific areas of the brain. That is why I repeatedly asked you what in that meditation procedure targets the specific part of the brain like the temporal lobe or the frontal lobe. You were the one doing circles with out answering my question "What in your procedure targets the temporal lobe?".
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