Proof for Ramayana & Mahabharatha!! Really?
#13
I had been relentlessly going through various sites in the net in search of the above subject...I could suggest the following sites with volumes of information on the subject.

http://www.mahabharathascience.blogspot.com [for mahabharata]
http://www.scienceinvedas.blogspot.com [for ramayana]

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#14
I think all the people who are questioning what is written in both Ramayana and Mahabharata, should go and check NASA website for small proof; you will see recently NASA started claiming that there are multiple galaxies exists in universe, there could be multiple sun, moon, earth etc.

Alien incidents are common in many parts of the world... so does their references in both the Ramayana and Mahabharata, also don't forget even if you consider these books are 500 years old, there were no Airplane or NASA existed during that time....

Not saying everything written is correct, but I am just surprised that everyone here are claiming themselves genius and smart and rejecting some software, which was developed by some IT officer on his free time, on his money and for his deep interest...I don't think anyone of us here has any right to say he has no business..trust me, you or I have not even spent fraction of time what some of these guys have spent to go to the facts.

Cheers
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#15
To set the record straight (or at least prevent it from being contorted further), here are some facts to chew on, for enthusiasts who manage to imagine endorsements of their fantasies in NASA findings, when some of those fantasies find no mention even in the tales these enthusiasts consider sacred.

- A galaxy outside of our Milky Way, namely Andromeda was spotted even by medieval observatories and definitely identified as a galaxy in 1925, decades before NASA was established in 1958.

- The Vaalmeeki Ramayana considered original by many of the faithful, makes no mention in Book 6 Chapter 22 of the miracle popular in folklore that the letters 'राम ' written on rocks made them float into place as a bridge to Lanka. One might have expected folks applauding Shila Daan (Rama-inscribed stone donation) to at least not attribute recent television-popularized superstitions to a text they hold sacred, even if it maybe unreasonable to expect scientific literacy from these brick-donating shrine-demolishing brigades.

Also, since NASA photographs once were cause for so much celebration among the brick-donors, here is an update for them.
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#16
(13-Mar-2013, 11:16 PM)arvindiyer Wrote: To set the record straight (or at least prevent it from being contorted further), here are some facts to chew on, for enthusiasts who manage to imagine endorsements of their fantasies in NASA findings, when some of those fantasies find no mention even in the tales these enthusiasts consider sacred.

- A galaxy outside of our Milky Way, namely Andromeda was spotted even by medieval observatories and definitely identified as a galaxy in 1925, decades before NASA was established in 1958.

- The Vaalmeeki Ramayana considered original by many of the faithful, makes no mention in Book 6 Chapter 22 of the miracle popular in folklore that the letters 'राम ' written on rocks made them float into place as a bridge to Lanka. One might have expected folks applauding Shila Daan (Rama-inscribed stone donation) to at least not attribute recent television-popularized superstitions to a text they hold sacred, even if it maybe unreasonable to expect scientific literacy from these brick-donating shrine-demolishing brigades.

Also, since NASA photographs once were cause for so much celebration among the brick-donors, here is an update for them.

You are missing the point here, what I am trying to discuss here is, in our ancient books we had many places, mention of different planets, aliens etc. modern world came to know about all this in recent past, we had reference of alignment in galaxy stars and planets, talk about multiple galaxies etc. we talked about age of earth and planet and moon... knowledge in our vedic books were so vast and detail that modern world is leveraging them to find new discoveries...below is one reference

http://www.alignment2012.com/Chapter12.html

http://www.alignment2012.com

Hope this clears that Vedic culture is the oldest and most knowledgeable.
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#17
(15-Mar-2013, 09:11 PM)weamins Wrote: You are missing the point here, what I am trying to discuss here is, in our ancient books we had many places, mention of different planets, aliens etc. modern world came to know about all this in recent past, we had reference of alignment in galaxy stars and planets, talk about multiple galaxies etc. we talked about age of earth and planet and moon... knowledge in our vedic books were so vast and detail that modern world is leveraging them to find new discoveries...below is one reference

http://www.alignment2012.com/Chapter12.html

http://www.alignment2012.com

Hope this clears that Vedic culture is the oldest and most knowledgeable.

There is a ton of pseudoscience in there and any discussion on that belongs in the Pseudoscience & Superstition forum. In this thread, address the specific claims for Ramayana and Mahabharat being real.
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#18
(15-Mar-2013, 09:34 PM)Lije Wrote:
(15-Mar-2013, 09:11 PM)weamins Wrote: You are missing the point here, what I am trying to discuss here is, in our ancient books we had many places, mention of different planets, aliens etc. modern world came to know about all this in recent past, we had reference of alignment in galaxy stars and planets, talk about multiple galaxies etc. we talked about age of earth and planet and moon... knowledge in our vedic books were so vast and detail that modern world is leveraging them to find new discoveries...below is one reference

http://www.alignment2012.com/Chapter12.html

http://www.alignment2012.com

Hope this clears that Vedic culture is the oldest and most knowledgeable.

There is a ton of pseudoscience in there and any discussion on that belongs in the Pseudoscience & Superstition forum. In this thread, address the specific claims for Ramayana and Mahabharat being real.

Fair enough, so let me start with, what are the parameters or criteria to establish in order to prove that both epics were real? I don't think you will ever come to a decision, if you keep talking about these epics were written by someone as a novel, in order to establish that these were real, you have to check references made in these epics and analyze with whatever we know or by some scientific methods.

I would like to reference few incidents in Mahabharata ( and I can't imagine, person who wrote this 10,000 years or more ago, can imagine these type of incidents or happening.

1) Birth of Kaurvas ( they born in some kind of pots, which you can call it today's test tube babies)
2) Vimans ( planes)
3) Brahmastra weapons ( once it launched, no turning back, can be compare as Nunclear weapons)

Above are few, and I am sure my friends on this forum can come up with so many, point I am trying to make, if epic have some reference, which can be testified with modern day technology or science, then what is the reason to believe that it was just a story and never happened?

Again, I am asking let's decide, what is the criteria to prove that they were real or not just story?

Cheers
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#19
Continuing with my last post, below is some analysis on how Ramsetu was built, for sure it wasn't because it was RAM written over stone...again, can we prove today with science that those references made on these epics can be justified or testified? I will say, yes RAMSETU can be testified in today's world...read the below paragraph....

Construction of Rama-Setu (Bridge)

Some historians include the construction of bridge by Rama's army from India across the ocean to Lanka as one among the many fictive narrations in Ramayana. However I do not consider this as enigmatic or fiction. Construction of bridge is a plausible reality, especially because the sea level around 3300 BCE or earler (assumed to be the period described in Ramayana) was lower than the current sea level. Rama and his Vanara army might have studied the nature of the shallow sea, and discovered the existence of the natural coral bridge that connects Srilanka with India. Rama's artificial bridge seems to have been built on top of this natural bridge. The natural bridge consisting of coral reefs and reef islands, which served as a substratum for Rama's artificial bridge, is still visible in satellite imagery.

This region contains stones whose relative density is lower than water. Hence these stones float in water. Such floating stones and even floating blocks of land are produced as a result of biological, chemical and volcanic activities associated with the coral reef complexes and other biological growths in the sea shores and lake-shores throughout the world.

Floating rocks such as Pumice rocks are formed due to volcanic activities, containing numerous pores with gas trapped inside. Such rocks are sometimes used to construct bridges across water-bodies. They are often used by magicians in ancient India to produce the impression of walking upon the surface of water. Sometimes inflammable gas is trapped in these rocks and these are used by some warrior-tribes as a firearm (fire-stones) in ancient battles like Kurukshetra war in Mahabharata and Rama-Ravana war in Ramayana. These stones produce fire or poisonous gas upon exploding.

There is another phenomenon called floating islands, which are naturally formed islands that float in the sea as a mass of aquatic plants, mud and rocks. These islands can also be created artificially. Many tribes in Peru still make such islands using bundled reeds and by connecting together many wooden rafts and reed boats. The floating mountain peak named Mainaka, described in Ramayana as lying between Lanka and Indian mainland seems to be such a floating island.

Some among the Vanaras, like Nala seems to be expert in construction of floating structures. Nala is described as son of architect Viswakarma, an allusion to his architectural skills. As we have already seen, Viswakarmas were a class of people skilled in architecture, like the Mayas of India and the Mayans of Meso-America. From the narration of bridge construction it is clear that they used, rocks, trees, reeds, logs, strings and roots to make the bridge.

There are also several reef islands and ordinary islands in between India and Srilanka. Even today there are 20 such islands. The number of islands could be more (close to 100) when sea levels where lower, as was the case during the period when Rama's bridge was constructed.

The bridge was thus a mix of various technologies involving floating islands, rocks of very low density, reed-boats, and some intermittent ordinary islands that lied between the mainland of India and Srilanka and it was constructed on top of a natural coral reef bridge connecting India and Srilanka, which can be seen even today. We should also consider the existence of some older bridges constructed by Ravana, who too needed to march his huge armies from Lanka two conquer his enemies in the Indian mainland. Ravana would purposefully keep these bridges without maintenance to prevent any army from marching from Indian mainland into Lanka. Remnants of such older bridges too might have helped the Vanara army to construct Rama-Setu (Rama's bridge) in a short span of time.
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#20
It turns out that walls of unattributed, plagiarized, unsubstantiated text of dubious authenticity in the preceding comments vindicate my earlier assumption that it maybe unreasonable to expect scientific literacy from these brick-donating shrine-demolishing brigades. Anyway, here are some more facts to chew on.

- A work of fiction isn't 'true' or 'false' but draws on real events and locations in varying degree, with varying mixes of imagined events. Heard of historical novels? The Puranic epics may share features with that genre, but that doesn't mean that arbitrary episodes can be treated as historical events, unless we are willing to accept Harry Potter series as history simply because the real city of London is mentioned therein.

- The ancients who were supposedly adept at tracking planetary trajectories and alignments got their numbers wrong in several instances, thus further exposing the 'science of astrology' as baseless.

- Claims of flying machines in Vedic texts or nuclear weaponry in the epics are readily exposed as recent forgeries or relying on standards of proof like "DC comics provide volumes of evidence that Batman was a historical figure."

- Adam's Bridge is not a product of a 'mix of various technologies' but a result of several fascinating geological phenomena. For those Ram Setu worshippers who trust the epics over the geological evidence, here's a question : What do you think is a more plausible narrative of the formation of The Rock of Gibraltar, the geological one or the 'pillar of Hercules' one? How can you employ different standards to the Rock of Gibraltar and the reefs across the Palk Strait?
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#21
(15-Mar-2013, 10:44 PM)weamins Wrote: Fair enough, so let me start with, what are the parameters or criteria to establish in order to prove that both epics were real?

The criteria is that it has to be a lot more plausible than fiction. If you have read the Harry Potter series, you would know that the London in it is a mix of reality and fantasy. If I were to argue that Harry Potter is real, then the kind of proof I need to provide is to not talk about King's Cross Station, but to actually show that people can fly on broomsticks. I can't evade questions by saying "Nobody today knows how to fly on broomsticks" or "We lost some books which teach us to fly on broomsticks".

To put it more explicitly, you need to provide evidence for the unrealistic claims than the realistic ones. The existence of Ayodhya doesn't mean anything to the matter of Ramayana being real. The existence of a monkey-human which can eat the sun or can jump from Sri Lanka to India in a single bound will provide unquestionable evidence for Ramayana being real. In the absence of such evidence, the only possible conclusion is that Ramayana is a work of fiction much like Harry Potter. It has some basis in reality, but a lot of it is just fantasy.

You also can't use another source of mythology to attest for Ramayana or Mahabharat without first applying the above criteria to that source.

Coming to "Ram Setu", it isn't enough if you can establish that it is possible that a bridge might have existed. You also need to provide evidence for other parts that relate to the bridge. For example, if Lanka was an empire, it should have had a capital city. Where is the archeological evidence for such a city? If Hanuman didn't need the bridge as he can just jump from Lanka to India, where is the evidence that such a life form ever existed? And so on. Merely picking on isolated parts and establishing that it might have happened just doesn't cut it.
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#22
(15-Mar-2013, 10:44 PM)weamins Wrote:
(15-Mar-2013, 09:34 PM)Lije Wrote:
(15-Mar-2013, 09:11 PM)weamins Wrote: You are missing the point here, what I am trying to discuss here is, in our ancient books we had many places, mention of different planets, aliens etc. modern world came to know about all this in recent past, we had reference of alignment in galaxy stars and planets, talk about multiple galaxies etc. we talked about age of earth and planet and moon... knowledge in our vedic books were so vast and detail that modern world is leveraging them to find new discoveries...below is one reference

http://www.alignment2012.com/Chapter12.html

http://www.alignment2012.com

Hope this clears that Vedic culture is the oldest and most knowledgeable.

There is a ton of pseudoscience in there and any discussion on that belongs in the Pseudoscience & Superstition forum. In this thread, address the specific claims for Ramayana and Mahabharat being real.

Fair enough, so let me start with, what are the parameters or criteria to establish in order to prove that both epics were real? I don't think you will ever come to a decision, if you keep talking about these epics were written by someone as a novel, in order to establish that these were real, you have to check references made in these epics and analyze with whatever we know or by some scientific methods.

I would like to reference few incidents in Mahabharata ( and I can't imagine, person who wrote this 10,000 years or more ago, can imagine these type of incidents or happening.

1) Birth of Kaurvas ( they born in some kind of pots, which you can call it today's test tube babies)
2) Vimans ( planes)
3) Brahmastra weapons ( once it launched, no turning back, can be compare as Nunclear weapons)

Above are few, and I am sure my friends on this forum can come up with so many, point I am trying to make, if epic have some reference, which can be testified with modern day technology or science, then what is the reason to believe that it was just a story and never happened?

Again, I am asking let's decide, what is the criteria to prove that they were real or not just story?

Cheers

1. Test tube babies doesn't mean the child is growing outside of mother's womb. The sperm and the mother's egg are fertilized in test tube and grown till the zygote is formed. When the zygote has formed it is reinserted in mother's womb and the child then grows naturally. I do not think there is any mention of reinsertion of zygote in Mahabharata or any other ancient scriptures.

2. Planes (vimans) Many ancient civilizations have mentions of "vimana" in their mythologies. Indian civilization is neither the "cradle of civilization" nor it is the oldest.

3. There are few references of using Brahmastra in Mahabharata and Ramayana. Rama used it, Arjuna used it, Ravana's son Indrajit used it and few more. Now if the Brahmastra was a nuclear weapon, you should realize that it would wipe out everything including the user. If Arjuna used in war then all the people present on the battlefield would have gone, do you find any reference of such wipe-out. Moreover it would lead to massive environmental destruction and radiation fallout.

These are all stories.

Thanks smile
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#23
If Ramayana was Valmiki's imagination, I must say he was really knowledgeable or a scientist in those days ;), Modern science/Nasa says that Ramsethu was created naturally. And stones with which it formed can float on water. If ever the bridge was above the sea-level when valmiki wrote this epic and hence he metion that in his story. He would have gone there and investigated the properties of stone and then he would have wote that ram sena used floating stones to build bridge…. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
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#24
If Mahabharata was only imagination of Vyasa Rishi, he was the real author of bhagwat geeta :O??? I can't believe that he wrote such an amazing story and Bhagwat geeta was copy right of shri krishna who is hero in his own story. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin.. Anyways I love both Ramayana and Mahabharata stories…
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