Prostitution should be legalized
#13
The problem of prostitution needs to be understood in the wider context of man-woman relationship as evolved in the course of the development of human civilisation and in its multifaceted dimension.In a class society which is mostly patriarchal, women have always been subjugated. In the slave society they were the most prized possession of the slave owners.In a feudal society, woman were the main source of entertainment for the feudal lords.For the ordinary folks in the pre-capitalist society marriage was arranged by the elders and was not based on love and romance between man and woman. In exceptional cases where there used to be love and romance in the old times it was mostly outside the marriage, e.g. we have the story of Dushyant and Shakuntala in ancient India.So apart from the slavery and lust of the rulers,prostitution developed for the quest of man for seeking love which he was unable to get within the marriage.Also it was promoted to fulfill the sexual needs of the soldiers who used to spend most of their times in battlefields.Even the religious doctrines were used to justify this barbaric system.

With the development of capitalism in Europe, the ideas of love-romance and monogamy develpoed.However the lofty ideals of liberty,equality and fraternity which inspired the capitalist class while it was struggling with the feudalism could not be translated into reality. The capitalist society which came into existence was not only unequal in terms of classes but unequal in the gender sense as well. The staus of a person in a capitalist society is judged by his economic power. So woman being economically weaker gender were at the receiving end. Although present in a class society since antiquity the phenomenon of prostitution expanded to an unprecedented extent. Women became a commodity to be enjoyed by those who could afford to purchase her body.Public prostitution is not the only kind of prostitution in modern capitalist society.In a developing country like India, since majority of women are still economically dependent on men, they have to submit to the wishes of their husband. The subjugation of women to men within the marriage is no less a crime than prostitution. So the same men enjoy private prostitution at home an public prostitution outside.Besides, the explosive growth of the porn indsustry is also a strand of the similar phenomenon.

Now the question is how to deal with this brutal exploitation of women by men. One solution which is often offered is that prostitution should be legalised. The legalisation of prostitution might address the problem of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases but it fails to address the issue of exploitation of women and children.It is nothing short of legalising a crime against humanity.While there may be some exceptional cases in which a woman volutarily opts for the 'profession' of prostitution, the overwhelming majority of the prostitutes are forced by the economic compulsion. Due to some compelling situation they fall prey to a world wide human traffing trap and once they enter into this trade it becomes extremely dificult to get out of it.Recently the prostitutes of Bangkok reached to the hand to mouth existence when riots broke out there.So the argument of woman having freedom to choose their profession is a fallacious one.

The other solution which is suggested is to impose a complete ban on prostitution.While it sounds morally justified, it hardly works out in a capitalist society. Unless we have a society where there is an opportunity for every willing individual to be employed and the wages thereof is sufficient to fulfill the basic needs of all the members of society, ban or no ban, exploitation of lower classes by upper classes and that of women by men would continue unabated in one form or the other. So the struggle against the barbarism of prostitution is linked with the struggle of women to achieve equal status to men in the society which in turn is intrinsically linked to the struggle of making a society which is free from all kinds of exploitation. But within a capitalist framework, there is no solution to the problem of prostitution - both public and private- in much the same way as there hardly exist a solution to the problems of economic distress and ecological disasters. The solution to these pressing problems of humanity would come in the course of revolutionary movements to build the foundation of a just and humane society which is free from exploitation of an individual by another and where the economic system is capable of meeting the basic needs of every member. Only in such a society the relationship between man and woman would be on the basis of love and romance and not on the exploitative basis.
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#14
Quote:The subjugation of women to men within the marriage is no less a crime than prostitution. So the same men enjoy private prostitution at home an public prostitution outside.Besides, the explosive growth of the porn indsustry is also a strand of the similar phenomenon.

I don't understand how subjugation in the home is equivalent to prostitution. If a man was forcing his wife to have sex with him, then that would be rape and that would be a much bigger crime than a woman/man consenting to sex and getting paid for it. They wouldn't even be in the same ball park, IMO.

Quote:The legalisation of prostitution might address the problem of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases but it fails to address the issue of exploitation of women and children.It is nothing short of legalising a crime against humanity.While there may be some exceptional cases in which a woman volutarily opts for the 'profession' of prostitution, the overwhelming majority of the prostitutes are forced by the economic compulsion. Due to some compelling situation they fall prey to a world wide human traffing trap and once they enter into this trade it becomes extremely dificult to get out of it.Recently the prostitutes of Bangkok reached to the hand to mouth existence when riots broke out there.So the argument of woman having freedom to choose their profession is a fallacious one.

I really have a problem with this argument. In my opinion, the legalization of prostitution is the only way to control it. You cannot change what, when and why people do things, but you can control where and how. I am not saying that women and men do not get exploited by the sex industry. But legalization is the only way to give actual rights to the people who choose to be there. Not everyone loves their job but everyone has their rights in the country they live in and the place they work at. Why not sex workers?
By keeping prostitution illegal, you are sending thousands of women to jail or their graves. Women should not have to be sent to jail for something so minor. And they should be given a right to proper medical aid, which cannot happen if they are too scared of being jailed. It's a vicious cycle that cannot end without a miracle. And you know how we all feel about miracles. ;)

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#15
(12-Oct-2010, 06:27 PM)palaeo Wrote:
Quote:The subjugation of women to men within the marriage is no less a crime than prostitution. So the same men enjoy private prostitution at home an public prostitution outside.Besides, the explosive growth of the porn indsustry is also a strand of the similar phenomenon.

I don't understand how subjugation in the home is equivalent to prostitution. If a man was forcing his wife to have sex with him, then that would be rape and that would be a much bigger crime than a woman/man consenting to sex and getting paid for it. They wouldn't even be in the same ball park, IMO.

I simply said the subjugation of women to men within the marriage is no less a crime than prostitution.If you are saying it is more severe crime, I dont think it is in any way contradictory to my point. Moreover I do not think that forcible sex is the only form of the subjugation of woman within a marriage or for a prostitute; the psycolgical trauma and the feeling of helplessness of a victim of domestic violence and the feeling and helplessness of the victim of prostitution are all the manifestation of the subjugation of woman to man in a patriarchal society.

palaeo Wrote:
Quote:The legalisation of prostitution might address the problem of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases but it fails to address the issue of exploitation of women and children.It is nothing short of legalising a crime against humanity.While there may be some exceptional cases in which a woman volutarily opts for the 'profession' of prostitution, the overwhelming majority of the prostitutes are forced by the economic compulsion. Due to some compelling situation they fall prey to a world wide human traffing trap and once they enter into this trade it becomes extremely dificult to get out of it.Recently the prostitutes of Bangkok reached to the hand to mouth existence when riots broke out there.So the argument of woman having freedom to choose their profession is a fallacious one.

I really have a problem with this argument. In my opinion, the legalization of prostitution is the only way to control it. You cannot change what, when and why people do things, but you can control where and how. I am not saying that women and men do not get exploited by the sex industry. But legalization is the only way to give actual rights to the people who choose to be there. Not everyone loves their job but everyone has their rights in the country they live in and the place they work at. Why not sex workers?
By keeping prostitution illegal, you are sending thousands of women to jail or their graves. Women should not have to be sent to jail for something so minor. And they should be given a right to proper medical aid, which cannot happen if they are too scared of being jailed. It's a vicious cycle that cannot end without a miracle. And you know how we all feel about miracles. ;)

I think you have a problem with my argument because we both are looking at the issue from diffeent vantage points. You are looking from the stand point of the rights of a tiny minority of prostitutes to choose their profession whereas I am trying to look the issue from the stand point of the overwhelming majority of the reluctant victims of the world wide racket of prostitution who are forced by their circustances to be what they are. You just want to 'control' this barbaric practice, I seek an end of it. You simpy want to give an artificial humane look to an otherwise inhuman face, I stand for changing the conditions which create such an ugly face. If you read my comments carefully, I do not suggest to 'keep prostitution illegal' as you are presenting it to be. What I wanted to suggest is that being rationalist youth of 21st century our thought process must go beyond the usual stereotypical solutions of legalising or banning prostitution. In the history of human civilisation the barbaric practices such as slavery, sati, colonialism etc. were ended by people's radical movements and when these practices were in the vogue there were those who used to say that "It's a vicious cycle that cannot end without a miracle"...So to say that we must strive for an end to this slavery of women by men is not to hope for a miracle by the forces outside this world but to have a deep conviction on this material world and the belief in the capacity of radical people's movement to bring about a social change, nay revolution!


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#16
Quote:I think you have a problem with my argument because we both are looking at the issue from diffeent vantage points. You are looking from the stand point of the rights of a tiny minority of prostitutes to choose their profession whereas I am trying to look the issue from the stand point of the overwhelming majority of the reluctant victims of the world wide racket of prostitution who are forced by their circustances to be what they are.

I don't think this is accurate. Palaeo clearly recognizes the fact that many women are forced into prostitution and that this needs to be addressed. And you are ignoring all the benefits that legalization can potentially bring, even to those prostitutes who are forced into the profession. You seem to be finding it too easy to draw the line marking this arbitrary divide between the minority who choose their profession and the majority who are forced into it. In reality all choices are affected by natural circumstances, and the line is much fuzzier. Extreme cases where the women are forced by others, most often men, against their will, are easy to judge. But when you are talking about other social causes such as poverty and a culture of objectification, we are talking about a situation where society as a whole is to blame. These social causes are responsible for a host of social problems, and solving those is priority. But if you take this or any other issue to this level of discourse you are entering the area of academic sociology, which is great but digresses from the focus of this discussion. I don't think anyone here refutes the fact that there are complex reasons for why prostitution exists. Many of us are well aware that the issue is complex, but addressing the problem needs a practical approach, not just recognition of the complexity of the situation. Legalization is a key step in beginning to address the problem. It establishes in law the idea that prostitution has complex issues involved, allowing us to creative a cultural narrative in favor of the notion that we must address each issue individually using science, reason and empathy.

Quote:You just want to 'control' this barbaric practice, I seek an end of it.


So you think that prostitution in general is a 'barbaric practice'? In my previous post I attempted to present a definition, though not explicitly. The point is, prostitution is simply getting financial or some other form of material compensation for sex, and unless you're a purist there can be nothing 'barbaric' about that as such. Certain specific causes and consequences of prostitution are barbaric, but the notion of prostitution itself is not. It is important to recognize this distinction.

Secondly on this point, lets be realistic. Prostitution cannot be eradicated. The best we can do is provide public protection to those engaging in it. This cannot happen unless prostitution is legalized, allowing governmental and non-profit aid-workers to reach out and help those prostitutes in need. More importantly, this cannot happen unless prostitution is destigmatized, allowing the public at large to recognize that prostitutes are people too. Labeling it 'barbaric' is not helping. It leads to the majority ignoring the problem instead of addressing it with reason.

Lastly on this point, having started with acknowledging the different levels of choice among prostitutes, you have regressed to a position that dismisses this distinction and treats them all as incapable of making personal choices. This is patronizing.

Quote:You simpy want to give an artificial humane look to an otherwise inhuman face, I stand for changing the conditions which create such an ugly face.

Again I disagree. Palaeo and others above actually addressed the issue in all its complexity and came up with reasonable solutions based on reason and compassion. You are making generalizations.

"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
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#17
(13-Oct-2010, 08:31 AM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:
Quote:I think you have a problem with my argument because we both are looking at the issue from diffeent vantage points. You are looking from the stand point of the rights of a tiny minority of prostitutes to choose their profession whereas I am trying to look the issue from the stand point of the overwhelming majority of the reluctant victims of the world wide racket of prostitution who are forced by their circustances to be what they are.

I don't think this is accurate. Palaeo clearly recognizes the fact that many women are forced into prostitution and that this needs to be addressed. And you are ignoring all the benefits that legalization can potentially bring, even to those prostitutes who are forced into the profession. You seem to be finding it too easy to draw the line marking this arbitrary divide between the minority who choose their profession and the majority who are forced into it. In reality all choices are affected by natural circumstances, and the line is much fuzzier. Extreme cases where the women are forced by others, most often men, against their will, are easy to judge. But when you are talking about other social causes such as poverty and a culture of objectification, we are talking about a situation where society as a whole is to blame. These social causes are responsible for a host of social problems, and solving those is priority. But if you take this or any other issue to this level of discourse you are entering the area of academic sociology, which is great but digresses from the focus of this discussion. I don't think anyone here refutes the fact that there are complex reasons for why prostitution exists. Many of us are well aware that the issue is complex, but addressing the problem needs a practical approach, not just recognition of the complexity of the situation. Legalization is a key step in beginning to address the problem. It establishes in law the idea that prostitution has complex issues involved, allowing us to creative a cultural narrative in favor of the notion that we must address each issue individually using science, reason and empathy.

Quote:You just want to 'control' this barbaric practice, I seek an end of it.


So you think that prostitution in general is a 'barbaric practice'? In my previous post I attempted to present a definition, though not explicitly. The point is, prostitution is simply getting financial or some other form of material compensation for sex, and unless you're a purist there can be nothing 'barbaric' about that as such. Certain specific causes and consequences of prostitution are barbaric, but the notion of prostitution itself is not. It is important to recognize this distinction.

Secondly on this point, lets be realistic. Prostitution cannot be eradicated. The best we can do is provide public protection to those engaging in it. This cannot happen unless prostitution is legalized, allowing governmental and non-profit aid-workers to reach out and help those prostitutes in need. More importantly, this cannot happen unless prostitution is destigmatized, allowing the public at large to recognize that prostitutes are people too. Labeling it 'barbaric' is not helping. It leads to the majority ignoring the problem instead of addressing it with reason.

Lastly on this point, having started with acknowledging the different levels of choice among prostitutes, you have regressed to a position that dismisses this distinction and treats them all as incapable of making personal choices. This is patronizing.

Quote:You simpy want to give an artificial humane look to an otherwise inhuman face, I stand for changing the conditions which create such an ugly face.

Again I disagree. Palaeo and others above actually addressed the issue in all its complexity and came up with reasonable solutions based on reason and compassion. You are making generalizations.

Hi Ajita,
As I mentioned earlier, since we are approaching the issue from different vantage points, we will never reach a point of convergence. So let's agree to disagree.
Just a few points to ponder:
You say "that lets be realistic. Prostitution cannot be eradicated." I am sure you
criticise the people who use the similar argument with regard to any social evil like religion, caste system,slavery etc. as apologists and rightly so. Not sure why your line of argument changes track when it comes to prostitution which in my view is indeed an expression of barbaric slavery of women by men and no less despicable than
racial slavery or caste slavery. To conclude, despite being a rationalist myself, I believe that unless the rationalist and secular imagination of human being think of providing the solution to the end of every kind of exploitation by a human being of another, a rational world outlook can not have a lasting triumph over
a religious world view for which this forum is meant for. And when I talk about providing the lasting solution, I certainly do not refer to some utopian or purist solutions or a solution of an arm chair philosopher.It only calls for a thorough scientific understanding of the amazing history of human civilisation to know as to
what caused certain social evils like slavery, colonialism etc to disappear.As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is only in the genuine mass movements that the solution to all the evils lie and the evil of prostitution is not an exception to this.
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#18
First off, prostitution is not a social evil. Sex trafficking is. Receiving money for consensual sex is not the same as being enslaved because of the colour of your skin/caste. People were born into slavery and caste-ism, and there were no laws to protect them against it. Social change took place only AFTER laws were made to protect them. The same laws are needed for sex workers. I don't have any real statistics to make claims like you do that a very small minority choose to be sex workers, but that will not deter me from saying that sex workers need rights. We know that keeping prostitution illegal is NOT working. What is the other option?
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#19
@anand: Your comparison of prostitution to slavery totally eludes me! We arent arguing about its practical implications. We all agree that the practical evils that come with prostitution has to be curbed. But I for one, definitely think that prostitution is *NOT* morally wrong, NOT a social evil, and definitely not a bad choice of a career. I think we disagree on this point itself, and this will be the moral premise that will dictate the rest of the argument. Can you just confirm this? If this is the case, then as you say, we can never converge.

Now you yourself have agreed that there are a minority that come into prostitution because they enjoy the work. I'm absolutely certain that we cant say the same for slavery! So this being the case, how do you justify banning prostitution completely. You are curbing the rights of those minority who really do enjoy the work. Isnt the better solution to filter the field and let the people who enjoy the job stay while helping others out. There hasnt been a generic solution, because prostitution cannot be compared to other social problems. Hence prostitution needs a different solution, not a black / white approach because it isnt a social evil, just that it comes with a lot of social evils associated with it.

PS: When people say caste system cannot be eradicated, I dont think they are being apologists! It cant be, atleast in the near future, and that is a truth that we have to deal with. We can only curtail its implications and the amount of distress it causes. Maybe in the distant future, there might be a situation, where we can think of going for the kill. But not now, not in the present! We are still far off from that day.
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#20
Quote:You say "that lets be realistic. Prostitution cannot be eradicated." I am sure you
criticise the people who use the similar argument with regard to any social evil like religion, caste system,slavery etc. as apologists and rightly so. Not sure why your line of argument changes track when it comes to prostitution which in my view is indeed an expression of barbaric slavery of women by men and no less despicable than
racial slavery or caste slavery.

It really seems like you are not reading what has already been written above, because you keep muddling the issue after the essence of the issue has been defined and reasoned arguments supporting legalization presented. You have ignored all the relevant parts of my arguments and are repeating the flaws in yours. I must ask you to recognize where your arguments are flawed by carefully reading my comment above again instead of reacting in response.

Here are the fallacies that you made in your last response:

1. Appeal to emotion (where the emotional appeal is based on false premises).
2. False equivalence.
3. Tautology.

Prostitution is not equivalent to religion or the caste system or slavery. In order for you to draw a reasonable analogy with these, you must first establish what it is about the notion of prostitution that you find so contemptible that it deserves to be on the same level of moral repulsion as slavery. Simply comparing prostitution to something that we mutually agree is undesirable doesn't make your argument valid. You can compare prostitution to eating marshmallows, but unless your argument explains why exactly prostitution is like eating marshmallows it amounts to false equivalence.

Your argument is also a tautology because you are taking as (at least) one of the premises the point that you wish to argue.

I don't wish to dwell on the problems in your argument to me, because you haven't addressed any of the points that I made above. Instead, you insist on talking about generalities that we all understand here, but with the premise that prostitution is an evil that needs to be eradicated built into your arguments. You are not the only person here who understands that the problems that we face require application of scientific thinking to many cultural and social areas. Everyone here is in favor of bringing about social change and gaining naturalistic understanding of the facts in order to achieve it. Let's talk about the issue of prostitution clearly. Please read what the subject under discussion is about. Do you have anything meaningful to say about whether prostitution should be legalized (which should be an easy one now that we have described a fraction of the benefits of legalization), something other than a dismissal of the arguments that everyone here has been making. In other words, address the subject under discussion and actually refute the arguments that you are dismissing.
"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
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#21
(13-Oct-2010, 05:28 PM)mohankarthik Wrote: @anand: Your comparison of prostitution to slavery totally eludes me! We arent arguing about its practical implications. We all agree that the practical evils that come with prostitution has to be curbed. But I for one, definitely think that prostitution is *NOT* morally wrong, NOT a social evil, and definitely not a bad choice of a career. I think we disagree on this point itself, and this will be the moral premise that will dictate the rest of the argument. Can you just confirm this? If this is the case, then as you say, we can never converge.

Now you yourself have agreed that there are a minority that come into prostitution because they enjoy the work. I'm absolutely certain that we cant say the same for slavery! So this being the case, how do you justify banning prostitution completely. You are curbing the rights of those minority who really do enjoy the work. Isnt the better solution to filter the field and let the people who enjoy the job stay while helping others out. There hasnt been a generic solution, because prostitution cannot be compared to other social problems. Hence prostitution needs a different solution, not a black / white approach because it isnt a social evil, just that it comes with a lot of social evils associated with it.

PS: When people say caste system cannot be eradicated, I dont think they are being apologists! It cant be, atleast in the near future, and that is a truth that we have to deal with. We can only curtail its implications and the amount of distress it causes. Maybe in the distant future, there might be a situation, where we can think of going for the kill. But not now, not in the present! We are still far off from that day.

You got it absolutely right, I strongly believe that prostitution is a social evil and it is a collective assault of the patriarchal society on the dignity of woman and hence it is immoral. I was under the impression that this debate was about providing ones' views about the social evil of prostitution. Now that I know that you do not consider it as an evil in the first place, there is no point to extend this discussion further.
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#22
(13-Oct-2010, 05:59 PM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:
Quote:You say "that lets be realistic. Prostitution cannot be eradicated." I am sure you
criticise the people who use the similar argument with regard to any social evil like religion, caste system,slavery etc. as apologists and rightly so. Not sure why your line of argument changes track when it comes to prostitution which in my view is indeed an expression of barbaric slavery of women by men and no less despicable than
racial slavery or caste slavery.

It really seems like you are not reading what has already been written above, because you keep muddling the issue after the essence of the issue has been defined and reasoned arguments supporting legalization presented. You have ignored all the relevant parts of my arguments and are repeating the flaws in yours. I must ask you to recognize where your arguments are flawed by carefully reading my comment above again instead of reacting in response.

Here are the fallacies that you made in your last response:

1. Appeal to emotion (where the emotional appeal is based on false premises).
2. False equivalence.
3. Tautology.

Prostitution is not equivalent to religion or the caste system or slavery. In order for you to draw a reasonable analogy with these, you must first establish what it is about the notion of prostitution that you find so contemptible that it deserves to be on the same level of moral repulsion as slavery. Simply comparing prostitution to something that we mutually agree is undesirable doesn't make your argument valid. You can compare prostitution to eating marshmallows, but unless your argument explains why exactly prostitution is like eating marshmallows it amounts to false equivalence.

Your argument is also a tautology because you are taking as (at least) one of the premises the point that you wish to argue.

I don't wish to dwell on the problems in your argument to me, because you haven't addressed any of the points that I made above. Instead, you insist on talking about generalities that we all understand here, but with the premise that prostitution is an evil that needs to be eradicated built into your arguments. You are not the only person here who understands that the problems that we face require application of scientific thinking to many cultural and social areas. Everyone here is in favor of bringing about social change and gaining naturalistic understanding of the facts in order to achieve it. Let's talk about the issue of prostitution clearly. Please read what the subject under discussion is about. Do you have anything meaningful to say about whether prostitution should be legalized (which should be an easy one now that we have described a fraction of the benefits of legalization), something other than a dismissal of the arguments that everyone here has been making. In other words, address the subject under discussion and actually refute the arguments that you are dismissing.

Hi Ajita,

My last response was not an attempt to refute your specific arguments. There I just wanted to conclude the debate and mentioned some points to ponder. I have clearly told 'LET'S AGREE TO DISAGREE' as our view point cannot converge if we look the issue from totally different vantage points. At the cost of being tautological let me reiterate that When we totally disagree on the gravity of the problem itself, there hardly would be any convergence on the solution provided by us.

In general following is my observation about this forum(if you are interested):

I was attracted towards this forum because it proclaimed to promote free thought in India about which I am also very much passionate about. But to my surprise I found that it is not the 'free thought' which is being encouraged, instead only pragmatic, practical, short term, quick fix solutions within the framework of existing socio-economic, political and ideological framework which is sought. Let me try to substantiate why I reached to this conclusion.

The topic of this debate was 'Prostitution should be legalised'. Your claim is that only those who support this view are reasonable and if someone says that it does not address the crux of the problem which is the exploitation of the majority of the women who are forced by their circumstances; many of them entered into this flash trade since childhood then according to you it is an 'Appeal to emotion (where the emotional appeal is based on false premises)'. I tend to agree that my argument had a tinge of emotional revulsion towards what I believe is a social evil. But it was certainly not based on the false premises. Request you to carefully read my first post under this topic where I attempted to give a reasoned explanation for my sense of disgust towards what I call a barbaric practice as also the fact that the issue cannot be addressed without linking it with the wider movement of women emancipation and the movement to build a society which is free of exploitation. But you believe that it is a deviation from the issue! So you just want to propose a quick fix bureaucratic solutions detached from the wider socio-economic context and wish that everybody must conform to it. For that you do not need free thought in a community forum like this, many government agencies are there to propose this kind of solutions. Not sure since when free thought has descended to the realm of pragmatism! If your version of free thought refers to only positivist arguments devoid of any value judgements and looking any issue in isolation with the socio-economic milieu and historical evolution, I really question not only its premises but even its desirability especially in a developing country like India where exploitation is rampant.

Its upto you to take it as a constructive criticism or otherwise.
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#23
I don't even....
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#24
I do not intend to get into this debate with this post. I just want to make an observation about the following quote:

(13-Oct-2010, 11:15 PM)anandinqalab Wrote: In general following is my observation about this forum(if you are interested):

I was attracted towards this forum because it proclaimed to promote free thought in India about which I am also very much passionate about. But to my surprise I found that it is not the 'free thought' which is being encouraged, instead only pragmatic, practical, short term, quick fix solutions within the framework of existing socio-economic, political and ideological framework which is sought. Let me try to substantiate why I reached to this conclusion.

...

Its upto you to take it as a constructive criticism or otherwise.

Anand, this is your previous response to Ajita. It is quite clear to a reader of this thread that Ajita or palaeo are speaking only as persons interested in the debate, rather than from the positions of authority that they have as an administrator/moderator. You are wrong to make a generalised opinion about these forums from Ajita's comments on this specific issue or because you find that a number of people disagree with you on this issue. A better way to handle all the opposition to your arguments is to perhaps address their criticisms.

And just for the record, I am not speaking as an admin as well, but as an observer of the debate. When I speak as an admin, I type in red. Red does not imply anger. It is just a colour.
Aditya Manthramurthy
Web Administrator & Associate Editor
Nirmukta.com
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