Religion gone to kitchen
#1

This is an excerpt from the below blog.

http://horahaaku.blogspot.com/2011/08/fo...ll-of.html


In this article I try to discuss with the reader about importance of food and how modern pioneers Gandhi, Ramana Maharshi interpreted. I always felt vegetarian should utter the words of Mercy on seeing meat instead, not all but majority make faces and pass bad comments. In this article we see that it was always debate of pure and impure food in India rather than ahimsa and mercy through out history. History is blunt in saying that Vedic Hindus did not completely believe in ahimsa [C1 C2]

Part I-and II summary

Thus Mauryan period helps us deduce that ancient India was bewildered and filled with animal sacrifices and rituals. Irrespective of what we deduce from Rig-Veda We have to Believe the solid rock inscriptions of Ashoka the great [5th Pillar Inscription] rather than interpretations of philosophers. But candid outburst of Revolutionary Buddha [Pali Text] , Basavanna and solid words of Vivekananda [C1 C2] , Ambedkar [Exclusive citations by Ambedkar] regarding rampant animal sacrifices in Ancient India cannot be ignored. The Farming community and people in general were frustrated with killing of cows and bulls as it risked Agriculture in addition they were very costly rituals. This gave rise to Buddhism which believed in “Ahimsa parmodharma” and swept the Majority of India with vegetarianism [rational behind ahimsa]. It seems Early Hindus performed sacrificial rituals and somehow did not believe in complete ahimsa, probably this is one of the reasons why some orthodox ritual hindus pinch their nose or pass bad comments when they see meat food rather uttering words of mercy.

/******* Part III*******/

Rise of Acharyas who were great in temperament, deeds and philosophy.

As usual it seems history repeats, yes again history repeated, their follower’s blind attitude and rigidity laid the final giant slab decorated with ever alive Vedic ornaments namely ‘Rituals’ and ‘ceremonies’ under which got buried the 4th caste Shudra and 5th incipient caste, i.e. the untouchables still underneath.

Interpretation of “Ahara shuddi” a Upanishad phrase and hence found in Geetha decided the fate of 80% of Hindus namely so called shudras and so called untouchables

Acharya Sri Ramanujacharya [ 1017 - 1137 ] interpreted ‘Ahara shuddi as below’

[Blind following of the below interpretation, gave a death blow to so called shudras ]

Sri ramanuja took the literal meaning and said intake of a man should be pure in the sense it should not have mainly 3 doshas

a) Jati dosha [ Defect in the class of food, onion, garlic, meat funda]

b) Ashraya dosha [ Defect in who brings the food]

c) Nimitta dosha [ impure things coming in contact of another]

This interpretation is the chief reason why you see even now the fellow orthodox ritualistic hindus[ Majority of them] make faces & sounds `Thu`, `Chi`, `Kya` when they see Alien food or meat food. When ever an orthodox Hindu goes to a shudras marriage etc. Every gobi manchurian looks to them as a pieces of chicken. For centuries we discussed what is pure and impure. Never gave importance to ahimsa, history clearly mentions that ahimsa was never a concern, but purity and impurity was the concern. Unfortunately I feel sad, Ahimsa was never advocated as a fundamental principle, no doubt you find 1000's of shlokas advising ahimsa in Hindu culture.

Hence he said Religion has gone to kitchen [ says Swami Vivekananda ]

The wonder Interpretation by Sri Shankara [ 788 - 820 AD, but not followed much]

But the great acharya Shankara interpreted it differently, he says Ahara means thought collected in mind, when that becomes pure, the satva becomes pure.

If food alone would purify the satva, then feed the monkey with milk and rice all its life would it become yogi. So once your mind is pure, you may eat what you like.

Vivekananda says, both are necessary, but Shankaras is the primary Idea. Pure food no doubt helps pure thoughts. Defect is Modern India has forgotten the advice of Shankaracharya and taken only the pure food meaning.

That is why people get Mad at me when I say, religion has gone to kitchen. In Madras people will throw away food if you look at it [p 275, Lectures of swami Vivekananda, From Colombo to Almora].

Mitha ahara is the Latest truth

If one claims mitha ahara [right amount of food intake] is a new interpretation, one would be foolish. Sadly primary aspects of Hindu scriptures never got circulated by Vedic cult or its followers. The reason is all along history we followed things blindly.

Ignorant Orthodox Hindus think that avoiding garlic, onion and meat is all about Satvika ahara. But it’s unfortunate every 2 out 3 priests who boasts to be a satvika man is obese.

So Satvika ahara is all about

a) Consuming just the right amount of food. Mitha ahara in addition

b) to shankaras purity in thoughts.

Pioneers in propagating Mitha ahara in addition to vegetarianism are

a) Gandhi

b) Sri Ramana Maharshi

They just did it in a simple manner. Simple living high thinking.

With proper scientific reasoning spread by these saints no doubt you see, in just less than 50 years, Millions of meat eaters have stopped eating meat and turned to vegetarianism. Because of the efforts of people like Gandhi..

So I conclude

oh Non- Meat eater, please educate the Meat Eater and respect any food instead of passing obnoxious comments.

Oh Meat Eater, kindly reduce the frequency of meat intake, so that next generation quits it completely.

This article provides a detailed philosophical, historical, archaeological and citations from Sanskrit, Buddhist and vachana literature. Food in the eyes of Vedic citations is provided [Rig-Veda C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 C6 ] [Soma Sacrifice ] and post Vedic citations from [C7 - C15 ] Shastras like Manushastra, Kautilya Artha Shastra etc speak about meat consumption and regulation of meat as in when it should be consumed, when it should not etc. are mentioned. In addition Symbolic and metaphorical analysis is touched upon [Rig Veda Rescued] which talks about hidden meaning in Vedas. Nevertheless solid words of Vivekananda, Buddha and Basavanna outweigh the symbolic interpretation.

Notable Historians like Haraprasad Shastri R S Sharma restate the same with their detailed historical analysis.

Detailed Citations about Food and drink in Vedic, period, post Vedic period, archaeological evidences etc are mentioned

http://horahaaku.blogspot.com/2011/08/fo...ll-of.html
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#2
(11-Sep-2011, 07:28 PM)srikgn Wrote: This is an excerpt from the below blog.

http://horahaaku.blogspot.com/2011/08/fo...ll-of.html

Could you please post a tl;dr version of the above?

It is possible that the concerns raised have been previously addressed in these threads on vegetarianism and rationality, prohibition of beef-eating in the Hindu tradition (1,2) and the legal aspects of ritual slaughter.

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#3
(12-Sep-2011, 12:58 AM)arvindiyer Wrote:
(11-Sep-2011, 07:28 PM)srikgn Wrote: This is an excerpt from the below blog.

http://horahaaku.blogspot.com/2011/08/fo...ll-of.html

Could you please post a tl;dr version of the above?

It is possible that the concerns raised have been previously addressed in these threads on vegetarianism and rationality, prohibition of beef-eating in the Hindu tradition (1,2) and the legal aspects of ritual slaughter.

Yes some of the views presented in the blog are covered by Mr Narendra for eg as he cites Buddhism being a reason for vegetarinanims. The one i have presented just details. Historical,Archaelogical and other citations of Well know people are also provided. can you please explain me what do you mean by TL.Dl version.
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#4
(13-Sep-2011, 02:10 PM)srikgn Wrote: Yes some of the views presented in the blog are covered by Mr Narendra for eg as he cites Buddhism being a reason for vegetarinanims. The one i have presented just details. Historical,Archaelogical and other citations of Well know people are also provided. can you please explain me what do you mean by TL.Dl version.

Here's what folks often mean by tl;dr , but someone asks for a tl;dr version on this forum, it can be treated as a request for a summary.

The request for a tl;dr version of the above post resulted from granting the writer/poster the benefit of the doubt, and the article itself raises doubts here because of...

(1) Its apparent adherence to a worldview that promotes according authority on dietary (and pretty much all other) matters to religious and quasi-religious authority figures 'acharyas who were great in temperament,deeds and philosophy' like Ramanuja and Shankara and 'modern pioneers' like Gandhi and Ramana. (It is amusing that after so many Arguments from Authority, the article without any trace of irony also derides 'their follower’s blind attitude and rigidity'!)

Perhaps the most egregious conflation of demagogic authority with scientific truth is in this quote:

Quote:With proper scientific reasoning spread by these saints no doubt you see, in just less than 50 years, Millions of meat eaters have stopped eating meat and turned to vegetarianism...because of the efforts of people like Gandhi.

(2) Its detailing of notions of 'purity and pollution' (Ahara Shuddhi) in food-handling and dining, many of which have been shown to be either irrelevant or downright false by scientific advances and scientific practice in food safety, disinfection and immunity.

(3) Its unquestioning and uncritical support of the unsupported link between dietary choices and virtuous behavior in other spheres. (How exactly does 'Pure food no doubt help pure thoughts'? What exactly is 'pure food' (See (2) above)?

(4) Its using of the obvious acknowledgment of obesity risks as an excuse to promote religiously enjoined mitha ahara as a substitute for contemporary dietetic advice

(5) Its attribution of condescending value judgments based on dietary choices and patronizing suggestion that these religiously motivated vegetarians 'educate' the rest



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#5
Quote:Perhaps the most egregious conflation of demagogic authority with scientific truth is in this quote:
"With proper scientific reasoning spread by these saints no doubt you see, in just less than 50 years, Millions of meat eaters have stopped eating meat and turned to vegetarianism...because of the efforts of people like Gandhi"

*) I am doing the job of an observer. Ahimsa was what i meant. I would buy this justification if someone says he is vegetarian.
Yes its debatable whether it passes the law of science

Quote:Its using of the obvious acknowledgment of obesity risks as an excuse to promote religiously enjoined mitha ahara as a substitute for contemporary dietetic advice

*) Mitha ahara:-
No religious funda was intended here. Its the right amount of intake of food. Each one can decide for himself. Its not difficult to provide proof for contemporary habits and their causes. I feel its not necessary.

Quote:food-handling and dining, many of which have been shown to be either irrelevant
Request the readers to understand it as 'hygiene". hygiene is most important especially to countries as ours.

I am not sure if i am breaking the rules of the forum. But since mistakes in each line is pointed out which essentially is keeping the essence or message of the article away. If the spirit of the writing is understood then such mistakes can be ignored by applying logic.

Yes mistakes can be found in the article because its the observations that are documented.
Believing in nonviolence could again be irrational in this Forum.

I believe in objective criticism.If Subjective criticism is avoided, would appreciate.

Also i request the authors to use simpler language. Because ultimate goal of nirmukta i believe is "it's view must reach the mass".

If i am received with such comments frequently, i would say it just shows the immaturity in passing judgments. I would not mind to be a silent spectator on this group.

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#6
(13-Sep-2011, 09:27 PM)srikgn Wrote: Believing in nonviolence could again be irrational in this Forum.

(13-Sep-2011, 09:27 PM)srikgn Wrote: I believe in objective criticism.If Subjective criticism is avoided, would appreciate.

A reading of earlier posts here may make you re-evaluate the above conclusions, since blanket dismissals of vegetarianism were painstakingly avoided here, even as pseudoscientific claims regarding diet are debunked, and further, there is an acknowledgment of the ethical complexity of the animal rights debate.

(13-Sep-2011, 09:27 PM)srikgn Wrote: Also i request the authors to use simpler language.

Since many of us here are hard-pressed for time and comment on the fly, it is possible that some of our comments may in fact need further elaboration or clarification, which none of the regular participants have so far declined from providing if sought.

Further, in keeping with a pluralistic approach, it is perfectly reasonable to adopt different styles during mass outreach and during discourse in a forum like this one where a consensus on the broad agenda prevails, even if not always on specific issues.
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