Richard Dawkins quote
#13
(23-Jun-2013, 10:42 AM)Shank1112 Wrote: PS - .at the same time i accept that hinduism has a long list of problems...

Is belief in God(s) one of those problem?
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#14
(23-Jun-2013, 11:05 AM)Captain Mandrake Wrote:
(23-Jun-2013, 10:42 AM)Shank1112 Wrote: PS - .at the same time i accept that hinduism has a long list of problems...

Is belief in God(s) one of those problem?
yes it is.....but telling that to someone relatively 'unintelligent' / 'not so educated' is wrong since the society is made of people with different levels of intelligence.........people like us (if i must say)......should work on raising the consciousness among people.....make them understand - reason and grow out of religion......instead of ridiculing them(which i find to be extensive in this page)....
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#15
(25-Aug-2010, 11:02 AM)Sajit Wrote: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/2014

"Hinduism and Buddhism offer much more sophisticated worldviews (or philosophies) and I see nothing wrong with these religions." Richard Dawkins

I think he is wrong in assuming that Hinduism and Buddhism are benign. Many of us can see plenty of wrong in these religions.

he said "Buddhism,Hindusim etc are ethical systems or philosophies of life and when I say religion it doesnt refer to these" - as said in God Delusion
the quote u make is skewed up version of this probably made by some1 who has sympathy for those religions
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#16
(23-Jun-2013, 10:50 AM)Shank1112 Wrote: and its funny to see that out of the 6 systems you have quoted 5 don't have the theistic view of god.......and coming to way u talk about modern atheism - its like u consider it to be another religion.......its not another religion...
isn't an atheist, some1 who has grown out of religion?? and there are always small disagreements among atheists......

I was responding to your point - "they have no value for superstition or faith". All six of them either actively encourage superstition of encourage faith based beliefs like a belief in Brahman. So why are you making it seem like I was only talking about god?

Btw, modern day Hinduism does have a very explicit belief in god. I suggest you go the nearest temple (there are so many in India that you shouldn't have to walk more than a kilometer to find one), and ask people who go into whether there is a god or not. If that still doesn't convince you that Hinduism is not so different from Abrahamic religions when it comes to a belief in god, go to a popular religious place like Tirupathi and do the same experiment - ask people there if there is a god.

You aren't the first Hindu apologist to play the silly game of "look at scripture X! No mention of god! Ergo no god in Hinduism!". A religion is defined by its practitioners. You can't close your eyes to reality, pick some arbitrary scripture and say "this is what Hinduism is".
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#17
(23-Jun-2013, 11:49 AM)Shank1112 Wrote: yes it is.....but telling that to someone relatively 'unintelligent' / 'not so educated' is wrong since the society is made of people with different levels of intelligence.........people like us (if i must say)......should work on raising the consciousness among people.....make them understand - reason and grow out of religion......instead of ridiculing them(which i find to be extensive in this page)....

Most of us here used to be religious. We know that different approaches will work on different people and looking at where we stand today, that seems to have worked. So please take your useless advice somewhere else. Also read the forum rules. Threads are meant to stay on topic.And the topic of this thread is a quote of Dawkins.
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#18
(23-Jun-2013, 08:36 PM)Lije Wrote:
(23-Jun-2013, 10:50 AM)Shank1112 Wrote: and its funny to see that out of the 6 systems you have quoted 5 don't have the theistic view of god.......and coming to way u talk about modern atheism - its like u consider it to be another religion.......its not another religion...
isn't an atheist, some1 who has grown out of religion?? and there are always small disagreements among atheists......

I was responding to your point - "they have no value for superstition or faith". All six of them either actively encourage superstition of encourage faith based beliefs like a belief in Brahman. So why are you making it seem like I was only talking about god?

Btw, modern day Hinduism does have a very explicit belief in god. I suggest you go the nearest temple (there are so many in India that you shouldn't have to walk more than a kilometer to find one), and ask people who go into whether there is a god or not. If that still doesn't convince you that Hinduism is not so different from Abrahamic religions when it comes to a belief in god, go to a popular religious place like Tirupathi and do the same experiment - ask people there if there is a god.

You aren't the first Hindu apologist to play the silly game of "look at scripture X! No mention of god! Ergo no god in Hinduism!". A religion is defined by its practitioners. You can't close your eyes to reality, pick some arbitrary scripture and say "this is what Hinduism is".

and there you go again.......why dont u read my comments completely??PLEASE READ THIS COMPLETELY AND DONT MISQUOTE ME LIKE YOU HAVE DONE IN YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS........
in my first comment itself i've written......"but the problem lies in the people who practice it.....unfortunately ALMOST ALL hindus never bother to read their scriptures....and STICK ON TO IRRATIONAL BELIEFS/SUPERSTITION etc..."

you say Prakruti and Purusha is an untenable argument...care to tell me how??
and even if its untenable.....i'm just saying people of that time tried to reason out and come to a conclusion with the limited knowledge they had.....(lets not get into that debate...its for another day....)

i never said define an entire religion based on one excerpt of a scripture....my basic point was "ITS WRONG TO SAY THAT THE HINDU GOD IS NO BETTER THAN THE ABRAHAMIC GOD".....because there has clearly been a lot of room for skeptical questioning......do u find this in abrahamic belief??
They only view of god u can see in those religions is that they have a "creator" who'll punish you if you dont believe in him......even though there are such references in hindu scriptures too....i can also look at more rational view point of god in many other scriptures.....
I dont understand the point of your experiment when i've already said that "all hindus never bother to read their scriptures....and stick on to irrational beliefs/superstitions etc." but i wouldnt find ny1 in any temple saying-- people who dont worship 'vishu' (say) will go to hell or any1 sayin--- evry1 in the world should follow hinduism...or any1 saying hinduism is the only way to god or anything like that......but go to a mosque and you'll find a large proportion of the people there saying such things....

and when did i ever say "there is no god in hinduism"????

you just keep misquoting me and make random assumptions from the little part of my comments you read....and say i'm a "hindu apologist"....

i'm no hindu apologist.....i look at all religions with an objective viewpoint and definitely am a bitter critic of hinduism when it comes to mindless rituals/caste system/superstitious beliefs/demigods(swamis)/and the very way in which it is being practiced........buddhism has a more refined form of the hindu philosophy....but the people who practice buddhism made buddha into a god (something which buddha vehemently criticized)....so who is to blame the people or buddhism??? i don see how buddhism would portray buddha as a god.....

and again i don't belong to any religion......I refuse to accept anything belief that has any amount of irrationality.....
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#19
(23-Jun-2013, 08:36 PM)Lije Wrote:
(23-Jun-2013, 10:50 AM)Shank1112 Wrote: and its funny to see that out of the 6 systems you have quoted 5 don't have the theistic view of god.......and coming to way u talk about modern atheism - its like u consider it to be another religion.......its not another religion...
isn't an atheist, some1 who has grown out of religion?? and there are always small disagreements among atheists......

I was responding to your point - "they have no value for superstition or faith". All six of them either actively encourage superstition of encourage faith based beliefs like a belief in Brahman. So why are you making it seem like I was only talking about god?

Btw, modern day Hinduism does have a very explicit belief in god. I suggest you go the nearest temple (there are so many in India that you shouldn't have to walk more than a kilometer to find one), and ask people who go into whether there is a god or not. If that still doesn't convince you that Hinduism is not so different from Abrahamic religions when it comes to a belief in god, go to a popular religious place like Tirupathi and do the same experiment - ask people there if there is a god.

You aren't the first Hindu apologist to play the silly game of "look at scripture X! No mention of god! Ergo no god in Hinduism!". A religion is defined by its practitioners. You can't close your eyes to reality, pick some arbitrary scripture and say "this is what Hinduism is".

and lol you I just observed you start off your first comment with with "6 astika schools of thought"
dont you know what astika means??.....its obvious if you look at the astika schools u'll find them encouraging belief in god....lol..
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#20
Shank1112,

Your initial argument was that god in Hinduism is not the same as that of Abrahamic religions. The post you were replying to defined what qualities of god are similar in both (omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent). Had you said that the Abrahamic god has additional qualities like if you don't believe in him you will go to hell and that concept is not present in Hinduism, I would have agreed. But that was not your argument. You wanted to show that Hinduism is vastly different from the Abrahamic religions and that atheism is widely accepted in Hinduism. On both counts you are wrong. As I said a religion is defined by its practitioners. A vast number of Hindus believe in a god who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. And atheists are a tiny minority in the Hindu community.

If you still want to play the game of "that's not what the scriptures say!". Which scriptures are you talking about? The Geeta? Ramayana? The Puranas? Mimamsa? Vedanta? How are you going to determine which is the real Hindu scripture and which is not? Those are rhetorical questions. The answer to them lies in the above paragraph.
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#21
(23-Jun-2013, 10:24 PM)Shank1112 Wrote: and lol you I just observed you start off your first comment with with "6 astika schools of thought"
dont you know what astika means??.....its obvious if you look at the astika schools u'll find them encouraging belief in god....lol..

I don't see any point in there other than flamebaiting.
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#22
(23-Jun-2013, 08:43 PM)Lije Wrote:
(23-Jun-2013, 11:49 AM)Shank1112 Wrote: yes it is.....but telling that to someone relatively 'unintelligent' / 'not so educated' is wrong since the society is made of people with different levels of intelligence.........people like us (if i must say)......should work on raising the consciousness among people.....make them understand - reason and grow out of religion......instead of ridiculing them(which i find to be extensive in this page)....

Most of us here used to be religious. We know that different approaches will work on different people and looking at where we stand today, that seems to have worked. So please take your useless advice somewhere else. Also read the forum rules. Threads are meant to stay on topic.And the topic of this thread is a quote of Dawkins.

lol its not me who took it out topic.....i was just replying to the previous comment......so your comment is rendered meaningless.....and lol.......... how is it irrelevant to the topic all my comments are trying to tell you that the Richard Dawkins' quote (the actual one which i've written in another comment).....is justified.....
your logical analysis seems to be really bad for an atheist......
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