Say No to Arranged Marriage
#13
Incredible! We have to tell people to "Say No to Arranged Marriage" even now! I did that 3 decades back. You guys will probably be saying this 3 decades from now. LOL.

The latest issue of "Tehelka" magazine is a "Love Special" with a "How to Elope" guide thrown in for good measure:
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main46.asp?...anding.asp

The individual stories are about couples who seem to have a healthy relationship. Whether one believes in the concept of "love" or that relationships are "need" based is a different matter.
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#14
If you do not subscribe to arranged marriages there is a good chance that ones children may not get married and this will deprive them of the chance of a having children of their own, a family life and company in old age with someone to look after them. The society will also become much more promiscuous and this will lead to sexually transmitted diseases.
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#15
(14-Sep-2010, 08:47 PM)Shantanu Wrote: If you do not subscribe to arranged marriages there is a good chance that ones children may not get married and this will deprive them of the chance of a having children of their own, a family life and company in old age with someone to look after them. The society will also become much more promiscuous and this will lead to sexually transmitted diseases.

Wow! A typical religious apologist argument - "Evidence be damned, I'll just parrot out nonsense".

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#16
(14-Sep-2010, 09:39 PM)Lije Wrote:
(14-Sep-2010, 08:47 PM)Shantanu Wrote: If you do not subscribe to arranged marriages there is a good chance that ones children may not get married and this will deprive them of the chance of a having children of their own, a family life and company in old age with someone to look after them. The society will also become much more promiscuous and this will lead to sexually transmitted diseases.

Wow! A typical religious apologist argument - "Evidence be damned, I'll just parrot out nonsense".

Whilst I am all for freedom of young people to choose what kind of future they wish to have they should be aware that finding a suitable husband or wife is not such an easy thing. One may fall in love and marry the person that one has found oneself and this is the most desirable method of choosing ones partner but for those who are unlikely to meet sufficient numbers to choose from it is a non starter. How is this a typical religious consideration?

I also happen to believe that in a society such as India and beyond it is the duty of parents to look for and find partners for their children.
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#17
(14-Sep-2010, 09:55 PM)Shantanu Wrote: Whilst I am all for freedom of young people to choose what kind of future they wish to have they should be aware that finding a suitable husband or wife is not such an easy thing. One may fall in love and marry the person that one has found oneself and this is the most desirable method of choosing ones partner but for those who are unlikely to meet sufficient numbers to choose from it is a non starter. How is this a typical religious consideration?

The situation where people can't find their own partners exists because of our cultural baggage. Instead of getting rid of it, it is usually justified within a religious framework. You also made unsubstantiated claims about promiscuity and STDs. Hence my observation.
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#18
(14-Sep-2010, 08:47 PM)Shantanu Wrote: If you do not subscribe to arranged marriages there is a good chance that ones children may not get married and this will deprive them of the chance of a having children of their own, a family life and company in old age with someone to look after them.

This goes to show the power that social institutions have on some people. They need an organized social structure in order to do what's good for them and society. Unfortunately, they are stuck in a false reality that existed back when those primitive social institutions evolved in our culture.

Quote:The society will also become much more promiscuous and this will lead to sexually transmitted diseases.

Lije already dealt with this, but let me add one point. It is a tired old conservative argument, often by the Catholic church, that promiscuity leads to more STDs. This is pure nonsense, of the sort that leads to abstinence-only programs. All the evidence shows that the best way to reduce the spread of STDs is to increase exposure to sex-education and making sure that people are informed.


"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
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#19
(14-Sep-2010, 10:20 PM)Lije Wrote:
(14-Sep-2010, 09:55 PM)Shantanu Wrote: Whilst I am all for freedom of young people to choose what kind of future they wish to have they should be aware that finding a suitable husband or wife is not such an easy thing. One may fall in love and marry the person that one has found oneself and this is the most desirable method of choosing ones partner but for those who are unlikely to meet sufficient numbers to choose from it is a non starter. How is this a typical religious consideration?

The situation where people can't find their own partners exists because of our cultural baggage. Instead of getting rid of it, it is usually justified within a religious framework. You also made unsubstantiated claims about promiscuity and STDs. Hence my observation.
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#20
Wow, This question i can relate very much.. my parents are literally looking for a girl for me.. I'll get email once in a week with bio-data and picture. and my parents are totally totally orthodox and they don't even step outside of home without checking calender ;) There's no indian girl in my town... my parents are totally against to different race, they have some good and bad reasons to support their argument.

For a moment, i thought its not really bad idea for arranged marriages, as longer not against to my and girl's will. But, i been scaring girls expressing my atheist view and plans for adoption. Pretty much all the matches my mom brought had sheltered life.. I have to see how life goes!!

50% of marriages in america end-up divorce, which make child life very life traumatic and based on statistics, a person is more likely divorce whose parents are divorced... healthy marriages leads to good society, in turns effects countries economy due to family institution system..

It makes feel that, removing completely arranged marriages might lead to this situations. I might be wrong here!!
I feel, arranged marriages has to base on common interests and mindset, rather than mathematical predictions and cast system..

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#21
(18-Sep-2010, 04:26 AM)ayyawar Wrote: 50% of marriages in america end-up divorce, which make child life very life traumatic and based on statistics, a person is more likely divorce whose parents are divorced... healthy marriages leads to good society, in turns effects countries economy due to family institution system..

It makes feel that, removing completely arranged marriages might lead to this situations. I might be wrong here!!

Let me assure you that you are.

You are confusing between the rate of divorce in a society and the quality of the marriages ("healthy marriages") in that culture. The problem in your reasoning is that the 50% of marriages that ended in divorce in the US would have been unhealthy marriages if they have not ended in divorce, which is probably why they DID end in divorce. That is, in America people don't stay married even when they are unhappy, unlike in India. Therefore, there are many more unhappy marriages in India. This is a fact. Growing up, I watched many rural families where the men would drink and beat their wives, and abuse them in other ways. The women took it and remained married, not because they were in "healthy marriages", but because they would have been ostracized from their communities if they had filed for divorce.

Some people draw spurious correlations between arranged marriage and the fact that Indians divorce much less. It's a correlation that's related to other repressive cultural factors, and has very little do with the arranged marriage itself. This is part of the package of social taboos that conservative tradition has imposed on us. For example, a woman in India would find it a lot harder to marry a second time than in the US, because of primitive notions of the concept of virtue among Indian males. (There are many such reasons, and I'm only listing one). The reason people in India divorce less is because society forces people to stay married, because of various social pressures that are found in our repressive culture.

Tradition-based social pressure leads people to live repressed, unhappy and tortured lives. In the US, life is about personal choices. In more traditional (and sometimes designated 'primitive') parts of the world, social pressures force one to make decisions that go against her/his personal choices.

Finally, I'm confused by your reference to economics. Can you explain what you mean by "effects countries economy due to family institution system"? You do realize that India is literally the bottom of the barrel in terms of per-capita economic wealth, right?
"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
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#22
(18-Sep-2010, 10:18 AM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:
(18-Sep-2010, 04:26 AM)ayyawar Wrote: 50% of marriages in america end-up divorce, which make child life very life traumatic and based on statistics, a person is more likely divorce whose parents are divorced... healthy marriages leads to good society, in turns effects countries economy due to family institution system..

It makes feel that, removing completely arranged marriages might lead to this situations. I might be wrong here!!

Let me assure you that you are.

You are confusing between the rate of divorce in a society and the quality of the marriages ("healthy marriages") in that culture. The problem in your reasoning is that the 50% of marriages that ended in divorce in the US would have been unhealthy marriages if they have not ended in divorce, which is probably why they DID end in divorce. That is, in America people don't stay married even when they are unhappy, unlike in India. Therefore, there are many more unhappy marriages in India. This is a fact. Growing up, I watched many rural families where the men would drink and beat their wives, and abuse them in other ways. The women took it and remained married, not because they were in "healthy marriages", but because they would have been ostracized from their communities if they had filed for divorce.

Some people draw spurious correlations between arranged marriage and the fact that Indians divorce much less. It's a correlation that's related to other repressive cultural factors, and has very little do with the arranged marriage itself. This is part of the package of social taboos that conservative tradition has imposed on us. For example, a woman in India would find it a lot harder to marry a second time than in the US, because of primitive notions of the concept of virtue among Indian males. (There are many such reasons, and I'm only listing one). The reason people in India divorce less is because society forces people to stay married, because of various social pressures that are found in our repressive culture.

Tradition-based social pressure leads people to live repressed, unhappy and tortured lives. In the US, life is about personal choices. In more traditional (and sometimes designated 'primitive') parts of the world, social pressures force one to make decisions that go against her/his personal choices.

Finally, I'm confused by your reference to economics. Can you explain what you mean by "effects countries economy due to family institution system"? You do realize that India is literally the bottom of the barrel in terms of per-capita economic wealth, right?


Excellent post Ajita. Too often in India people hold this view that divorce rates are high in America as compared to India and this somehow makes arranged marriages in India and 'Indian culture' superior. Women in India are more under pressure socially to stay married despite being unhappy than in western societies where personal choice is more important.
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#23
I agree with you, You have made lot of solid points, based on my experience with my colleges and friends, most of them have tried their best to keep up with marriages. Taking further steps to counseling etc etc. I come across this arguments lot of time with americans, Lot of people say, its brilliant as long as its done in right way..

One of the reason i find all the time in american is poor decisions... Before marriage every person shows their best side and after marriage that will be little different. involvement of parents in decision making is not completely bad idea, I wouldn't name it as arranged marriage something in between..

Male domination, and social pressure are not good at same time.. A women doesn't need to put up.

Where it comes to economics, Family institution system plays a vital role, On average every indian family saves 10% of their income level, where as americans save -7%. I agree per-capita income is very low, still we don't have great fluctuations in currency.. Although we always compare all world currency with dollar.. Still at end, India's economy is saving economy..

India's debt to world bank is lot less compared to americans.. Pretty much every american i seen has some sort of credit cards debts and loans.. One might have good infrastructure and wealth, still everything is on credit.

An organized family institution system leads to optimal usage of resources and money, and helps in building better communities..




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#24
(18-Sep-2010, 02:59 PM)ayyawar Wrote: One of the reason i find all the time in american is poor decisions... Before marriage every person shows their best side and after marriage that will be little different.
I'm not sure what this has to do with arranged marriage. There is potential for being deceived in all types of marriages, and certainly arranged marriages are more deceptive in general. The key is that in a 21st century relationship, before one commits to another, s/he must get to know the partner properly.

Quote:Where it comes to economics, Family institution system plays a vital role, On average every indian family saves 10% of their income level, where as americans save -7%. I agree per-capita income is very low, still we don't have great fluctuations in currency.. Although we always compare all world currency with dollar.. Still at end, India's economy is saving economy..

I'm still lost. You seem to be drawing correlations at random to make your arguments. Such correlations are nonsense unless you can demonstrate a causative effect. Why exactly does it matter that India's economy is a saving economy if India is still fully in the shithouse? And how is financial policy related to arranged marriage?

Quote:India's debt to world bank is lot less compared to americans.. Pretty much every american i seen has some sort of credit cards debts and loans.. One might have good infrastructure and wealth, still everything is on credit.

Again, I fail to see your point. Many people have a problem with the American system, and it is true that much of America runs on credit, but many also fail to truly understand how it works. Read this to get an idea: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22085 . Its not just Americans who are living on American debt. The entire world is. The real standard of measure of health in a society is the quality of life of its citizens, not the quality of its traditional institutions.

More importantly, none of this has anything to do with marriage or divorce rate or arranged marriage.

Quote:An organized family institution system leads to optimal usage of resources and money, and helps in building better communities..

What the hell is an "organized family institution system"? Are you talking about the "institution of marriage" as the American conservatives call it? And what constitutes "optimal usage of money"? These are just more words that are jumbled together and not making sense to me. In any case, this is now becoming about marriage in general. That's not what this was about. This is about losing certain repressive mate-picking behaviors, in favor of developing true and meaningful relationships, before committing to each other.









"Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian"
~ J.B.S.Haldane, on being asked to falsify evolution.
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