Say No to Arranged Marriage
#25
LOL, Ajitha you are like Christopher Hitchens, tough to argue..

First i am not trying to make any statements, trying learn something..

Lets me make it two different point,

1) Relations between family system to economic situation.. (might be totally absurd) we can discuss about this later

2) Involvement of parents in mate-picking, since this is topic, we can discuss about this..

Arranged marriages: I guess we all agree social pressure and male domination is reason for success rate, and that is not justified..

Dating: which might lead to divorce, we defiantly want to minimize them as much as possible..

how far do you think, parents should be involved in mate-picking.. what kind of procedure or approach you would suggest so that every common man can use??
Reply
#26
The wide-spread marriage system in India is "Arranged Marriage (driven by parents) based on horoscopes". I am glad nobody on this thread is arguing for the 'horoscopes (baloney, crap)' portion.

As far as parents involvement is concerned, Its been made amply clear very early in this thread that our Indian social system has resulted in building individuals lacking the social skills in finding a mate. So, lets freaking fix that problem. i.e start building those skills. We will have teething issues, so what? thats the price we got to pay, in the pursuit of a better system. If your parents dont subscribe to critical-thinking/freethought as you say, then do realize that you are better positioned to take a good decision in this matter. I say this from experience.

Dont let the spectre of divorce bother you that much. The percentage of of unhappy marriages in India(and such countries) will far exceed those in the developed nations. I would actually be happy if people get out of such marriages, and if the divorce rates go up, so be it.

Here's a relevant quote from VSNaipaul's "India: A Wounded Civilization".
Quote:The indian ego is underdeveloped. The world of magic and animistic ways of thinking lie close to the surface. ... This underdeveloped ego is created by the detailed social organization of Indian life, and fits into that life. The mother functions as the external ego of the child for a much longer period than is customary in the West, and many of the ego functions concerned with reality are later transferred from mother to the family and other social institutions. Caste and clan are more than brotherhoods; they define the individual completely. The individual is never on his own. he is always fundamentally a member of his group, with a complex apparatus of rules, rituals, taboos. Every detail of behaviour is regulated. Relationships are codified. And religion and religious practices lock everything in place. The need, then, for individual observation and judgement is reduced. something close to a purely instinctive life becomes possible
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has - Margaret Mead
Reply
#27
(18-Sep-2010, 07:56 PM)astrokid.nj Wrote: Here's a relevant quote from VSNaipaul's "India: A Wounded Civilization".
Quote:The indian ego is underdeveloped. The world of magic and animistic ways of thinking lie close to the surface. ... This underdeveloped ego is created by the detailed social organization of Indian life, and fits into that life. The mother functions as the external ego of the child for a much longer period than is customary in the West, and many of the ego functions concerned with reality are later transferred from mother to the family and other social institutions. Caste and clan are more than brotherhoods; they define the individual completely. The individual is never on his own. he is always fundamentally a member of his group, with a complex apparatus of rules, rituals, taboos. Every detail of behaviour is regulated. Relationships are codified. And religion and religious practices lock everything in place. The need, then, for individual observation and judgement is reduced. something close to a purely instinctive life becomes possible
ClapClap
Reply
#28
While agreeing that arranged marriage in general is unhealthy for a society, I would also add that I am against marriages in general. Marriages are a historical product of human development and the evolution of private property as an institution in feudalism and later epochs of history. A fascinating study on this was done by Frederick Engels in Origins of the Family which is available online here: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wor.../index.htm.

Also at various historical times, women were considered as the property of men. If you read the Manu Smriti, it clearly mentions how women were treated as one among the riches of a man. Also, the ring used in western societies is a modified form of the chain which was used in pre-historic times to signify that a woman "belonged" to a man. IMHO the current institution of marriage is also another way of continuing the patriarchal oppression of women in our society. Of course, I don't expect the institution of marriage to fall out of fashion any time soon in India, I do think that stopping forced/arranged marriages would be a good step.
Reply
#29
FYI. For thought provoking perspectives, 'Marriage and Morals' by Bertrand Russell is an excellent book.
Reply
#30
All the arguments for/against arranged marriage aside, I think that the major reason why arranged marriage persists in India is because the traditional roles played by men and women are responsible for creating the most unhealthy of attitudes and relationships between the sexes. It is a culture based on repression of natural instincts that need to be celebrated, resulting in severely under-developed social skills when dealing with the opposite sex. Simply put, the puritanic attitudes regarding male-female interaction among children and young adults are responsible for requiring arranged marriage as a means for these people to find mates. Without the help of their parents/elders, most Indians would make terrible choices in choosing a suitable partner, and many would be completely unable to get anywhere with the opposite sex.
[/quote]

this is exactly how i feel but you put it in a brilliant way.

From a evolutionary point of view , since beauty or attractiveness doesnt play any role in arranged marraiges there is a high possibility that in future we could end up the most ugliest folk on the planet smile
Reply
#31
(10-Aug-2010, 10:51 PM)Ajita Kamal Wrote: Ever since I was a little kid the idea of arranged marriage seemed like something that happened to other people, and I never associated it with myself. It always seemed like an alien concept to me, something that I observed with the detached fascination of an anthropologist studying an Amazonian tribe.

My parents never pressured me, but then again they've had a good 15 years of being informed of my non-traditional approach to life. Last year I learned that my younger brother is interested in getting hitched through an arranged marriage.

All the arguments for/against arranged marriage aside, I think that the major reason why arranged marriage persists in India is because the traditional roles played by men and women are responsible for creating the most unhealthy of attitudes and relationships between the sexes. It is a culture based on repression of natural instincts that need to be celebrated, resulting in severely under-developed social skills when dealing with the opposite sex. Simply put, the puritanic attitudes regarding male-female interaction among children and young adults are responsible for requiring arranged marriage as a means for these people to find mates. Without the help of their parents/elders, most Indians would make terrible choices in choosing a suitable partner, and many would be completely unable to get anywhere with the opposite sex.

I have got my two sons married very happily by arranged marriages. I am their well wisher better than anybody else and they trusted me to their benifit. (Madhukar Kulkarni)

Reply
#32
Quote:I have got my two sons married very happily by arranged marriages. I am their well wisher better than anybody else and they trusted me to their benifit. (Madhukar Kulkarni)

This is very personal approach per se. We are discussing about the why arrange marriages are bad. And we will be more than happy to see that your children are happily arranged married. However, all arrange marriages are good on this given sample is nothing but a "Hasty generalisation".

I would like to quote on a little off bit on this topic "arrange marriages are so common in India"?

- Due to caste system. As caste system don't allow its members to marry outside the group, parents and elders took control over the most important decision of persons life, ie. Marriage.
- Joint family structure - This is relevant even today, parent are happen to live with atleast one of the child. Hence emphasis is given on the qualities of women who is going to come to the family. The responsibilities are taken over from mother-in-law to daughter-in-law; hence she must be well prepared in cooking and related work. So the daughter-in-law must be more compatible with her mother-in-law than her own husband.
- Young people are not very well allowed to have good interaction with opposite sexes. Hence the problem of connecting with person of other sex.
- Child marriage or early age marriage are still common.
- Many are married before establishing own financial stability hence depend more on parent's choice.

Why arrange marriages are bad?
- First of all, we must see what Human rights has to say about marriage,

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Article 16.
(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

My intention is not to declare that each arrange marriage is forced. But many of them are forced down to at least one party, bride or groom.

- It assumes that, only parents can think about the well-wish about children and hence the child has no right in the decision.

- The success rate of arrange marriage is often delusion, as it is pointed out by many members in this group.

- The social standing in India is so rigid, that people having problem with marriage often do not want to discuss it with anyone.

- I am not sure how can someone could have sexual feeling to other without having a prior known to the person.

- Many times, the person who already has psychological or other health problems are forced married, believing that the marriage will solve the cause.

- The problem of depression is big among Indian but culturally is not addressed correctly. Even the synonym for depression in Indian languages is not available (at least in Hindi or Marathi).

The structure of arrange marriage is changing with time. The influence of western culture cannot be denied. But having said that, opposing the system of arrange marriage, is not acceptance of western culture. We must be free to choose what is the best for us. :-)
Indians today are governed by two different ideologies. Their political ideal set in the preamble of the Constitution affirms a life of liberty, equality and fraternity. Their social ideal embodied in their religion denies them. - Ambedkar
[+] 3 users Like nispat's post
Reply
#33
(15-Aug-2010, 08:54 PM)palaeo Wrote: Well, not so little. But that pretty much sums up my views on arranged marriages. And apart from all the FAIL that is the concept of arranged marriage, how could you be "intimate" with someone you barely know, especially if it's your first time ever, and you have no real exposure to what intimacy really is.

I have heard many times that sex with the person you are in love with is more than just sex. And even though I have not experienced it with my girlfriend, I HAVE been intimate with her and it has been the best 4 years of my life.

All this because I chose whom I want to be with for the rest of my life by being friends with her first. Now we know all our likes and dislikes and understand each other greatly. And no matter what, we always know what the other person is thinking about at any given situation.

For me, all of this is has been possible because I really connected with this girl and have got to know her as many ways as possible. We both know each other's defects and annoying habits and are completely ok with it. We sometimes even start to like it.

This kind of maturity comes only by being with a person in a rational relationship where both of them try genuinely to understand the other. NOT by marrying the person that is most financially supportive, best looking or rightfully born into the same community as yours. And only if you are able to love the person whom you are with, besides all their abnormalities, should you even THINK about marriage.

Sorry if I got a little carried away. This is one topic I get very worked-up about. :P
[fon‌t=Trebuchet MS]The easiest answer to a difficult question is almost always not the right one.[/font]
Reply
#34
The culture of Arranged Marriages (AM) represents a very defective feature of Indian Culture. Here are the reasons:

1.AM’s embodies the shameful practice of taking and giving dowry.
2.AM’s has resulted in many dowry-deaths.
3.AM’s is witness to the majority of men prostituting themselves in the marriage market.
4.AM’s reduces both men and women to objects to be involved in a crude and stupid transaction.
5.AM’s forces people to be trapped in miserable and incompatible marriages (we have crores & crores such examples).
6.AM’s is a kind of “dacoity” done through an institutionalized practice.
7.AM’s also represents the "cultural stupidities” of some Indians who think AM’s are successful because it does not have as many divorces as in love marriages. Little do they know that lack of divorces doesn’t mean “marital success”.
8.AM’s represents social repression of women.
9.AM’s represents an extremely hypocritical trait in Indians – they go about pontificating on the “sanctity of marriage” when they exhibit all the above traits.
10.AM’s engenders communal feelings preventing integration of people belonging to various religions and communities.

But does this mean the solution is Love Marriage? Yes & No.

I leave this posting open-ended, because I want others to carry forward – and perhaps complete - this issue with their postings and comments.
Reply
#35
MOD NOTE:
The below post has been merged with this thread to avoid duplication of threads.

(09-Jun-2012, 11:10 AM)Raz2802 Wrote: The culture of Arranged Marriages (AM) represents a very defective feature of Indian Culture. Here are the reasons:

1.AM’s embodies the shameful practice of taking and giving dowry.
2.AM’s has resulted in many dowry-deaths.
3.AM’s is witness to the majority of men prostituting themselves in the marriage market.
4.AM’s reduces both men and women to objects to be involved in a crude and stupid transaction.
5.AM’s forces people to be trapped in miserable and incompatible marriages (we have crores & crores such examples).
6.AM’s is a kind of “dacoity” done through an institutionalized practice.
7.AM’s also represents the "cultural stupidities” of some Indians who think AM’s are successful because it does not have as many divorces as in love marriages. Little do they know that lack of divorces doesn’t mean “marital success”.
8.AM’s represents social repression of women.
9.AM’s represents an extremely hypocritical trait in Indians – they go about pontificating on the “sanctity of marriage” when they exhibit all the above traits.
10.AM’s engenders communal feelings preventing integration of people belonging to various religions and communities.

But does this mean the solution is Love Marriage? Yes & No.

I leave this posting open-ended, because I want others to carry forward – and perhaps complete - this issue with their postings and comments.

Reply
#36
This poll commissioned by NDTV asking the question "Does India still want arranged marriages?", perhaps unsurprisingly but nevertheless disappointingly for many here, suggests that the national mood on this question is not converging with the majority view in this forum with any sort of urgency.

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/nd...od-related

Text version: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/ndtv-m...ges-260295 (There are interesting regional variations though.)
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)