The Nirmukta Freethought Community

http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/analysi...566203-all

Quote:Goal 1: Overawe India on Kashmir.
Strategy: Remove Article 370 and resettle ex-servicemen in the valley. Create Panun Kashmir for the Hindu Pandit community. Look for or create an opportunity to take over PoK. If Pakistan continues to back terrorists, assist the Baluchis and Sindhis to get their independence.

Goal 2: Blast temples, kill Hindu devotees.
Strategy: Remove the masjid in Kashi Vishwanath temple and the 300 masjids at other temple sites.

Goal 3: Turn India into Darul Islam.
Strategy: Implement the uniform civil code, make learning of Sanskrit and singing of Vande Mataram mandatory, and declare India a Hindu Rashtra in which non-Hindus can vote only if they proudly acknowledge that their ancestors were Hindus. Rename India Hindustan as a nation of Hindus and those whose ancestors were Hindus.

Goal 4: Change India’s demography by illegal immigration, conversion, and refusal to adopt family planning.
Strategy: Enact a national law prohibiting conversion from Hinduism to any other religion. Re-conversion will not be banned. Declare that caste is not based on birth but on code or discipline. Welcome non-Hindus to re-convert to the caste of their choice provided they adhere to the code of discipline. Annex land from Bangladesh in proportion to the illegal migrants from that country staying in India. At present, the northern third from Sylhet to Khulna can be annexed to re-settle illegal migrants.

Goal 5: Denigrate Hinduism through vulgar writings and preaching in mosques, madrassas, and churches to create loss of self-respect amongst Hindus and make them fit for capitulation.
Strategy: Propagate the development of a Hindu mindset.

I support this. While we are at that, shouldn't we ban the ultimate soul-corrupting "western" science from our Indian schools? We know that Rama lived 1.6 million years ago, he built the Adam's bridge along with his golden Langur army. Dem' evil scientists won't tell us the truth!

Swamy wants to lead India with its own version of Islamic Revolution (1979), the only difference would be that it will called Hindu Revolution.

I think there were some Swamy's supporters on IA or Nirmukta fb page, you should post this piece over there.

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In the latest DNA article, Dr. Swamy is unusually transparent about his sectarian agenda. In earlier appearances he preferred to employ a kind of slippery sophistry cloaked ostensibly in liberal values. A case in point is the recent India Today conclave (and as I have grown fond of saying, here too is a Nirmukta video waiting to happen).

Dr. Swamy begins with deceptively reasonable-sounding admission that religion has destabilized the subcontinent (clip), which none of us would think of disagreeing with. However, towards the end, he concludes with a flourish that the blame for the destabilization is to be laid squarely at the feet of Islam and Christianity (clip).

From what to us is a reasonable start, to what to us is an outrageous conclusion, Dr. Swamy traces a path through either revisionist history or sectarian readings of actual historical events (thus conveying a veneer of scholarship), in the process touching upon almost every talking point of Hindu exceptionalists.

(i) Non-indigenous faiths introduced sectarianism into India. (clip)
(ii) The plight of Hindus in Bangladesh and Pandits in Kashmir testifies to the perils of Islamofascism. (clip)
(iii) Our government is in a pseudo-secular state of perpetual dhimmitude ceding authority to theological jurisprudence. (clip)
(iv) Religious, cultural and even academic freedom are anathema to Islam. (clip 1) (clip 2)
(v) The problem is not the fundamentals of Islam but its theology itself. (clip)

As Lije says here, the critical faculties of apologists work just fine while lambasting other religions!

Coming the glories of Hinduism and its primacy, Dr. Swamy chooses to trot out Julia Roberts (clip) and cites the genographic project (clip). The last claim on ethnic homogeneity of 'Aryans' and 'Dravidians' is something that needs examination (and if necessary debunking) of the sort that forum members here revel in.

Though Dr. Swamy did have a field day, there was some consolation at the end when he was called out on his self-serving oversimplifications by the irrepressible Dr. Farooq Abdullah (clip), whose comments will be music to the ears of many here.

Dr. Swamy is a wonderful example of why freethinkers should be extremely wary of Hindu apologists who seek to show common cause (Uniform Civil Code) with us.

Of course Islamic terror needs to be wiped out.But what about the Saffron terror?Does this Subramanian ever talk about that?And the most foolish line of this article was|| "rising above caste and language"||.This is something that the propagators of Hindutva have consistently failed in doing or rather they were never concerned about doing_____Their texts continue to be derogatory for women and things written in them getting practiced widly(We can cite out atleast 100 sentences from Manusmruti,Geeta,Ramcharitamas,Ramayana,Mahabharata) and their unbound principle of 'inequality' continues to exist................. Islamic terror___People die in some time irrespective of their castes and without any fault of theirs and their families get appropriate compensation.___Hindu Casteist terror______people die continuously under threat,and when deviate a little bit from the set customs,suffer a punishment like women getting raped,paraded naked,burnt alive and men getting peed upon and beaten to death.And when such incidences come up people like 'SUBRAMANIAN' dont quite bother.Quite blatantly this internal terrorism is more dangerous than Islamic terror,which needs to be wiped out first.

Moreover the measures suggested by Subramanian like ||"Change India’s demography by illegal immigration, conversion, and refusal to adopt family planning"|| and others too are absolutely inhuman,unconstitutional and moreover they are "ANTI NATIONAL".These measures simply talk of wrenching away the fundamental rights,and that too at the cost of something that is nothing but harmful for the nation.
One more foolish argument of his.
At once instance he tells people to "|| Rise above Caste ||" and at another instance he wants the Caste system to persist by saying "||Declare that caste is not based on birth but on code or discipline ||" and stupidly again
he says ||"Welcome non-Hindus to re-convert to the caste of their choice provided they adhere to the code of discipline.||"And this code of discipline is nothing but 'Manusmriti",which conspicuously states the criteria for caste as 'BIRTH'.Subramanian has foolishly intermingled his own interpretations and contradicted his own suggestions.But at the end of it,what is to be concluded is that this was just another 'DESPERATE ATTEMPT' to let dominate their age old orthodox customs,in the name of ending terrorism,and there by pushing India backwards.

Treating this as a Subramanian Swamy dump thread for now, here are more nuggets from him, from what is ostensibly called a 'Bhagavad Gita' lecture. The time devoted to the subject in the title is minuscule and the treatment is cursory, assisted by frantically flipped pages. The rest of the time is devoted to untiring reiteration of all-time-favourite apologist talking points before a smug, fawning audience.

Hailing the glory of Varna Dharma (Clip) This system of social organization 'minimizes stress' apparently.

Establishing a myth of racial homogeneity in the Indian subcontinent (Clip) This is a rehash of the 'Sun tans can be inherited' theory.

Appropriating Gandhianism into saffronism (clip)

Hailing the 'explanatory power' of the 'Law of Karma' (Clip) Well, Science makes a demand not just for explanations but for explanations backed up by evidence and lending themselves to predictions.

Awaiting an era just around the corner where all software will be in Sanskrit (Clip) Here's Lije's take on the same matter.

And of course, the mandatory lambasting of 'non-indigenous', 'invading' faiths (Clip)

As for his 'impeccable scholarly credentials', he relates the possibly apocryphal tale of Alexander and Diogenes, misattributing the episode to Socrates instead of Diogenes, with his 'enlightened audience' not batting an eyelid at this gaffe. (Clip). Just for the record, Alexander wasn't born until 43 years after the death of Socrates!

(18-07-2011 12:32 AM)arvindiyer Wrote:  Coming the glories of Hinduism and its primacy, Dr. Swamy chooses to trot out Julia Roberts (clip) and cites the genographic project (clip). The last claim on ethnic homogeneity of 'Aryans' and 'Dravidians' is something that needs examination (and if necessary debunking) of the sort that forum members here revel in.

He says that Indians from north to south have the same DNA. No shit Sherlock! Do you know who else shares DNA with Indians? All life on Earth!

This comment trail presents an actual scientific view as opposed to Swami's jingoistic caricatures.

Swamy's article in DNA causes Harvard to remove the courses that he teaches. Although it can be argued that removing them is a breach of free speech, an analogy from the article makes it clear that it is an issue of hate speech:

Quote:"(Mr Swamy's position on disenfranchisement) is like saying Jewish Americans and African Americans should not be allowed to vote unless they acknowledge the supremacy of white Anglo Saxon Protestants," said History Professor Sugata Bose.

(17-07-2011 12:02 PM)Lije Wrote:  http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/analysi...566203-all

Quote:Goal 1: Overawe India on Kashmir.
Strategy: Remove Article 370 and resettle ex-servicemen in the valley. Create Panun Kashmir for the Hindu Pandit community. Look for or create an opportunity to take over PoK. If Pakistan continues to back terrorists, assist the Baluchis and Sindhis to get their independence.

Goal 2: Blast temples, kill Hindu devotees.
Strategy: Remove the masjid in Kashi Vishwanath temple and the 300 masjids at other temple sites.

Goal 3: Turn India into Darul Islam.
Strategy: Implement the uniform civil code, make learning of Sanskrit and singing of Vande Mataram mandatory, and declare India a Hindu Rashtra in which non-Hindus can vote only if they proudly acknowledge that their ancestors were Hindus. Rename India Hindustan as a nation of Hindus and those whose ancestors were Hindus.

Goal 4: Change India’s demography by illegal immigration, conversion, and refusal to adopt family planning.
Strategy: Enact a national law prohibiting conversion from Hinduism to any other religion. Re-conversion will not be banned. Declare that caste is not based on birth but on code or discipline. Welcome non-Hindus to re-convert to the caste of their choice provided they adhere to the code of discipline. Annex land from Bangladesh in proportion to the illegal migrants from that country staying in India. At present, the northern third from Sylhet to Khulna can be annexed to re-settle illegal migrants.

Goal 5: Denigrate Hinduism through vulgar writings and preaching in mosques, madrassas, and churches to create loss of self-respect amongst Hindus and make them fit for capitulation.
Strategy: Propagate the development of a Hindu mindset.

IT totally wrost thing .So sad that We are not Grow yetttttttt

Though an atheist myself, I like his suggestions. I cannot say much about Kashmir, but his proposition of "acknowledging HINDU ancestry" would be fine had he not had a pure political motive and had there not been such a strong Hindutvadi current in the nation. Let's have an atheist alternative. Why don't minorities, through signature or some other method, acknowledge and owe their allegiance to the Republic of India BEFORE the Mecca or the Vatican. And as for the Hindus, well, they always say that India by its nature is a Hindu nation. So here's a litmus test. Why don't the Hindus also go through the same process and consciously acknowledge their allegiance to the Secular Republic (since Hinduism supposedly is "secular" by nature) before god, cult, or Sanatan Dharam. I can only wonder what the reaction would be.

(29-10-2012 06:28 AM)Pranav Grover Wrote:  Why don't minorities, through signature or some other method, acknowledge and owe their allegiance to the Republic of India BEFORE the Mecca or the Vatican. And as for the Hindus, well, they always say that India by its nature is a Hindu nation. So here's a litmus test. Why don't the Hindus also go through the same process and consciously acknowledge their allegiance to the Secular Republic (since Hinduism supposedly is "secular" by nature) before god, cult, or Sanatan Dharam. I can only wonder what the reaction would be.

Well, in all fairness the pledge of allegiance you propose does not place the same burden on the minorities (Muslims and Christians) as on Hindus. While the most extreme of the radical Hindus from BJP etal might have a problem (not really, just fake outrage) with the pledge when it comes to Muslims and Christians even the moderates among them will justifiably have a problem with it. They will view it as an attempt at othering them.

Besides what does this pledge accomplish anyway? Couldn't people just lie when making this pledge?