16-Jun-2014, 03:50 AM
(15-Jun-2014, 09:10 PM)Captain Mandrake Wrote:(15-Jun-2014, 06:14 AM)Huolalupin Wrote: The fact that what is being studied is consciousness does not mean that a scientific approach cannot be taken.
First, who ever said that anything should not be studied with a scientific approach? You should show that the Hindus studied anything at all scientifically (I showed you how science works in my previous post) through meditation. You have not done that yet. Instead all you said in your original post went something like this. **The Hindus might have studied cosmic patterns expressed in the rhythms of the human body through meditation. But there might have been confusion about concepts such as numbers and duration. And so we can not say that their claims are superstitious non-sense.** That kind of argument from ignorance does not fly here.
And can you also please try to stick to the topic. Why did you jump from discussing the Universe or Cosmology to consciousness?
Let us go back to your first post. What cosmic patterns and rhythms of the human body are you talking about? Can you please list anything other than the 24 day-night cycles and the circadian rhythm? And explain how meditation (shutting your self off of from the world) helps you identifying the link between those cosmic patterns and circadian rhythm?
I didn't accuse anyone of saying a scientific approach should not be taken. I suggested that the Hindus whom you contrasted with real scientists and who you said worked within a completely evidence-free framework may actually have had such an approach. The fact that they worked in isolation would not necessarily have been unscientific considering the object of their study. As I explained, however, I was advancing reasons for not dismissing them out of hand rather than mounting a full-scale exposition and defence of yoga. I am not a practitioner of yoga and I am unqualified to say what regularities in the body or the world may become discernible to someone who has spent a lifetime cultivating attentiveness to minute changes. It merely strikes me as not unreasonable to suppose that the heightened sensitivity resulting from yogic practice could yield insights capable of contributing to to an accurate idea of the Universe. That idea might be provisional and partial, awaiting integration with other models, but it would not necessarily be ridiculous as you suggest.
Your idea that I changed the subject when I went from talking about the Universe to talking about consciousness illustrates what I said about variations in meaning. One of the conceptions of the Universe under discussion, if I understand it correctly, includes the idea that consciousness is the Universe's primary substance so I certainly wasn't straying from the topic. It is perhaps because you have nailed your colours so firmly to the other mast that you did not see this.
I appreciate your showing me how science works but could you show me how it should address the question of consciousness? We could then stop worrying about yoga and the Hindus.