Posts: 20
Likes Given: 2
Likes Received: 2 in 2 posts
Threads: 4
Joined: Jul 2012
12-Jul-2012, 12:23 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-Jul-2012, 12:43 AM by Nibir.)
Is Hinduism really the world's oldest religion? Is it really the religion from which all other religions emerged? Was there no other religion prior to Hinduism?
I think there might have been other developed religions(like Paganism), which emerged prior to Hinduism. Does anybody here know of any religion which existed prior to Hinduism?
I am asking this question because most people accept this theory "Hinduism is oldest religion and the origin of all religions" as a fact and treat it as the ultimate truth.
Posts: 20
Likes Given: 45
Likes Received: 12 in 4 posts
Threads: 4
Joined: Apr 2012
To make sense of such claims, we have to define our terms in an agreeable manner before getting into debate.
This recent thread might interest you, where the poster argues over the definitions and special pleads for Hinduism.
So what scriptures and people define Hinduism for you?
Posts: 20
Likes Given: 2
Likes Received: 2 in 2 posts
Threads: 4
Joined: Jul 2012
12-Jul-2012, 07:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-Jul-2012, 07:37 PM by Nibir.)
(12-Jul-2012, 12:28 PM)Why Wrote: To make sense of such claims, we have to define our terms in an agreeable manner before getting into debate.
This recent thread might interest you, where the poster argues over the definitions and special pleads for Hinduism.
So what scriptures and people define Hinduism for you?
I meant Hinduism in simplistic terms. By Hinduism I mean the religion which the majority of Indians follow. The religion which includes-Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, Laxmi, Durga, Parvati and many other gods & goddesses. The religion in which cow is worshipped as a mother. The religon whose religious scriptures include Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana, Mahabharatha etc. The religion earlier known as Sanatan dharma.
And the people who follow this religion could be termed as hindu?
Note : As per my limited knowledge of hinduism.
Posts: 628
Likes Given: 165
Likes Received: 607 in 315 posts
Threads: 65
Joined: Oct 2010
12-Jul-2012, 08:37 PM
(This post was last modified: 13-Jul-2012, 07:05 AM by arvindiyer.)
While many beliefs and practices in what is commonly known as Hinduism do have a hoary past, exaggeration of antiquity is common apologist behavior. Mainstream estimates of the age of the Vedas, put the date of the core Samhita portion of the Vedas to the 10-12 centuries BCE, quite at odds with the revivalist boast of a 'five-thousand-year-old Vedic civilization'.
Another apologist-driven misconception is to treat contemporary Hinduism, whose pantheon is dominated more by Puranic than Vedic deities, as somehow a parent faith of Buddhism. This chronology is seriously challenged if we consider that the Dhammapada, a fundamental text in the Pali canon, dates back to the 3rd century BCE whereas the Bhagavad Gita, a text orthodox Hindus literally swear by, is dated between 2nd century BCE and the 2nd century CE. The Bhagavad Gita is itself a palimpsest of different and competing schools of thought, some of which were influenced by heterodox schools like Buddhism, and would in varying degree constitute what is Hinduism today.
As for the Puranas which supply the dominant leitmotifs of contemporary Hinduism, their origins date back largely to the 'post-Buddhist' Gupta era and their fairly recent origins are discussed in this thread.
Coming now to the favourite apologist peeve that it is only the term 'Hindu' that is a recent coinage and the faith it refers to is 'eternal' (sanAtana), here are some crucial facts it ignores. The term Sanatana Dharma isn't to be found in the Vedas. The most influential text in which the term is to be found, that too only cursorily and allusively, is the Bhagavad Gita ( Verse 1:39 and Verse 11.18 ). Even in these verses, it is either strictures of clan preservation or a Vaishnavite conception of monotheism that the term 'Sanatana/Shashvata Dharma' is used to refer to, rather than a unified universalizing religion accommodating both the Vedas and Puranas as the apologists and revivalists claim. Therefore, the claim that the faith that is now Hinduism was always referred to as Sanatana Dharma by its adherents since deep antiquity, is perhaps one more revivalist myth.
Posts: 20
Likes Given: 2
Likes Received: 2 in 2 posts
Threads: 4
Joined: Jul 2012
arvindiyer
Thanks a lot bro, that's a lot of interesting and precious information.
Coming to my next question, do you know of any religion which existed prior to Sanatan Dharma?
Posts: 628
Likes Given: 165
Likes Received: 607 in 315 posts
Threads: 65
Joined: Oct 2010
The religion which would be the right answer to the question " What is the oldest religion?" perhaps is most probably one that hasn't been given a name by later anthropologists or even its own followers. A broad class of practices involving rites of passage and veneration with origins in primitive cultures only retrospectively came to identified as 'religion', just as the generic notion of 'art' would have come to be applied much later to activities such as painting and dance.
In fact, even more recent questions like " What was the religion of the Aryan settlers before the Vedas were composed?" or " What sort of religion did the inhabitants of the Indus valley cities follow?" evade clear answers in the terminology that is current today, let alone the overarching question of " What is the oldest religion?" Questions like what is the world's first organized religion, or first state religion or first scripture-based religion may lend themselves to a readier historical study but still one that is greatly limited by gaps in the historical record of deep antiquity. However it maybe said that 'Hinduism' is not a self-evident or satisfactory answer to any of those questions. Neither are 'Paganism' or 'Animism' or 'Shamanism' because those words aren't names of religions just like "Monotheism" is not the name of a religion. Each of those terms presupposes a realm besides Nature with which contact maybe established via sacred rituals and objects or chosen mystics, a set of beliefs of which even the 'three monotheisms' cannot be claim to be wholly sanitized, despite their vehement disdain and antipathy towards indigenous faiths. The lingering primitive influences of contemporary religion, and a chronicling of the shifting definitions of the very concept of religion are some of the themes explored in this documentary ' The Story of God' hosted by Robert Winston.
Posts: 20
Likes Given: 2
Likes Received: 2 in 2 posts
Threads: 4
Joined: Jul 2012
Thanks a lot for the replies.
And to think I was beginning to question my own sanity  Most of the people I've talked with (including Hindu atheists) are convinced that Hinduism is indeed the root of all religions.
I guess more research needs to be done regarding the exact origins of Hinduism.
P.s. I should mention that I'm not an anti-hindu. In fact I'm a hindu myself and I follow the hindu way of life(not because I believe in this religion, rather due to peer pressure  )
I hope you guys had balls to talk ot Islam in same fervour as Hinduism . Hinduism gives you the flexibility to apply a logical & scientific argument to start an intellectual discussion , while Islam would just screw you up for raising such valid doubts . which one do you think is the father of all religion ? whether you believe or not , Hindusim is the truth
Posts: 697
Likes Given: 259
Likes Received: 357 in 199 posts
Threads: 83
Joined: Mar 2010
(23-Jul-2012, 12:20 AM)dev Wrote: I hope you guys had balls to talk ot Islam in same fervour as Hinduism . Hinduism gives you the flexibility to apply a logical & scientific argument to start an intellectual discussion , while Islam would just screw you up for raising such valid doubts . which one do you think is the father of all religion ? whether you believe or not , Hindusim is the truth
dev, you are not the first Hindu apologist to have come up with that non-excuse. Ignorance does not make Hinduism worthy of anything.
Posts: 20
Likes Given: 2
Likes Received: 2 in 2 posts
Threads: 4
Joined: Jul 2012
14-Aug-2012, 12:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 14-Aug-2012, 12:51 PM by Nibir.)
(23-Jul-2012, 12:20 AM)dev Wrote: I hope you guys had balls to talk ot Islam in same fervour as Hinduism . which one do you think is the father of all religion ? whether you believe or not , Hindusim is the truth
You don't need balls to talk of Islam in same fervour as Hinduism. Pointing a finger at others while overlooking our own mistakes doesn't require any ball set.
Instead it requires more guts to take a look at ourselves and find out the mistakes in our own religion. That's what we guys are doing.
(23-Jul-2012, 12:20 AM)dev Wrote: Hinduism gives you the flexibility to apply a logical & scientific argument to start an intellectual discussion.
That's a tall claim. But we could discuss about it in another thread.
(23-Jul-2012, 12:20 AM)dev Wrote: which one do you think is the father of all religion ? whether you believe or not , Hindusim is the truth
Never heard a certain religion was a father to other religions. In that case, which religion is the mother?Can you prove it?
Posts: 1
Likes Given: 0
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2013
Sanamahism or Shamanism is World Oldest Religion.
Posts: 10
Likes Given: 71
Likes Received: 14 in 6 posts
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2012
Hindu tradition has a schoolboy's scorn for dates.
- Will Durant (Our Oriental Heritage - Story of Civilization)
Chronology of Hinduism
http://i.imgur.com/U2m4jji.png
Quote:ca. 1500-1000 BCE
Rig Veda
ca. 1200-900 BCE
Yajur Veda, Sama Veda and Atharva Veda
ca. 800-600 BCE
Brahmanas
ca. 600-500 BCE
Aranyakas
ca. 500 BCE
Shrauta Sutras
ca. 500 BCE
Yaska’s Nirukta
ca. 500-400 BCE
Early Upanishads
ca. 483/486 BCE
Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, dies
ca. 468 BCE
Vardhamana Mahavira, the Jina, founder of Jainism, dies
ca. 450 BCE
Shaunaka’s Brihaddevata
ca. 400-100 BCE
Later Upanishads
ca. 400 BCE
Jaimini’s Purva Mimamsa Sutras
ca. 400 BCE
Badarayana’s Vedanta Sutras (Brahma Sutras)
ca. 300 BCE
Grihya Sutras
ca. 300 BCE
Panini’s Ashtadhyayi
ca. 300-100 BCE
Dharma Sutras
ca. 300-200 BCE
Kanada founds the Vaisheshika school
ca. 300-200 BCE
Bharata’s Natyashastra
ca. 300 BCE-300 CE
Mahabharata
ca. 200 BCE-100 CE
Tolkappiyam
ca. 200-100 BCE
Gautama founds the Nyaya school
ca. 200 BCE-200 CE
Valmiki’s Ramayana
ca. 150 BCE
Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras
ca. 100-300 CE
Cankam poetry composed in Tamil Nadu
ca. 100 CE
Bhagavad Gita
ca. 100 CE
Manu’s Manava Dharmashastra
ca. 150 CE
Monuments of Bharhut and Sanchi built
ca. 200 CE
Kautilya’s Arthashastra
ca. 250-550 CE
Markandeya Purana (the Devimahatmya portion is added later)
ca. 250-500 CE
Matsya Purana
ca. 300 CE
Vatsyayana Mallanaga’s Kamasutra
ca. 300 CE
Panchatantra
ca. 350-950 CE
Brahmanda Purana
ca. 400-477 CE
Kalidasa
ca. 400 CE
Hinduism spreads to Southeast Asia
ca. 400-500 CE
Ilanko Atikal’s Tamil epic Cilappatikaram
ca. 450 CE
Harivamsha
ca. 450 CE
Vishnu Purana
ca. 450-900 CE
Vamana Purana
ca. 500-800 CE
Nayanmar Shaiva Tamil poets, authors of the Tevaram
ca. 550-850 CE
Kurma Purana
ca. 600-750 CE
Padma Purana
ca. 600-1000 CE
Linga Purana
ca. 600-930 CE
Alvar Vaishnava Tamil poets
ca. 650-800 CE
Early Tantras
ca. 700-1100 CE
Skanda Purana
ca. 750-1350 CE
Shiva Purana
ca. 788-820 CE
Shankara
ca. 800 CE
Manikkavacar’s Tiruvacakam
880-930 CE
Nammalvar, author of Tiruvaymoli
ca. 900-1000 CE
Brahmayamala Tantra
ca. 900-1300 CE
Yogavasishtha
ca. 950 CE
Bhagavata Purana
ca. 1056-1137 CE
Ramanuja
1106-1167/8 CE
Basava, founder of Lingayatas/Virashaivas
1148 CE
Kalhana’s Rajatarangani in Kashmir
ca. 1100-1200 CE
Mahadeviyakka
ca. 1178 CE
Kamban’s Iramavataram (Tamil version of Ramayana)
ca. 1200 CE
Jayadeva’s Gitagovinda
ca. 1200 CE
Ramacharitam (Malayalam version of Ramayana)
ca. 1200 CE
Early Sufis in North India
ca. 1250 CE
Palkuriki Somanatha’s Basava Purana
ca. 1238-1317 CE
Madhava, dualist philosopher, in Karnataka
ca. 1300 CE
Shri Vaishnavas split into Cats and Monkeys
('marjara kishora nyaya' and 'markata kishora nyaaya')
ca. 1350 CE
Sayana’s commentary on the Rig Veda
ca. 1352-1448 CE
Vidyapati of Mithila
ca. 1375-1450 CE
Chandidas
ca. 1398-1518 CE
Kabir
ca. 1400 CE
Villiputtur Alvar’s Tamil version of the Mahabharata
ca. 1400 CE
Krittibas Ojha’s Bangla Ramayana
1408-1503 CE
Annamayya (Telegu poet)
1469-1539 CE
Guru Nanak, founder of Sikhism
1479-1531 CE
Vallabha (founder of sect devoted to Krishna)
1483-1563 CE
Surdas
1486-1533 CE
Chaitanya
ca. 1489-1565 CE
Rupa Goswami
ca. 1498-1547 CE
Mirabai
1532/43-1623 CE
Tulsidas
ca. 1574-1577 CE
Tulsidas’s Ramcharitmanas
ca. 1600 CE
Kashirama Das’s Mahabharata
1608-1649 CE
Tukaram
1622-1673 CE
Kshetrayya
ca. 1700 CE
Mahanirvana Tantra
ca. 1700 CE
Kalki Purana, last of the major Puranas
ca. 1700-1800 CE
Parthayana, Balinese Kakavin text
ca. 1720-1781 CE
Ramprasad Sen
1772/4-1833 CE
Rammohun Roy
1824-1883 CE
Dayananda Sarasvati
1828 CE
Rammohun Roy founds the Brahmo Samaj
1829 CE
Burning of widows banned
1834/6-1886 CE
Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
1843 CE
Debendranath Tagore revives Brahmo Samaj
1861 CE
Michael Madhusudan Datta’s Epic of Meghananda
1863-1902 CE
Vivekananda (founder of the Ramakrishna movement)
1869-1948 CE
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
1872-1948 CE
Aurobindo Ghose
1873-1924 CE
Mahakavi Kumaran Asan
1875 CE
Dayananda Sarasvati founds the Arya Samaj
1875 CE
Helena Blavatsky founds the Theosophical Society
1891-1956 CE
B.R. Ambedkar
1893 CE
Vivekananda attends World’s Parliament of Religions in Chicago
1893 CE
Cow Protection issue ignites Hindu-Muslim hostility
1896-1977 CE
A.C. Bhaktivedanta, Swami Prabhupada (founder of ISKCON)
1897 CE
Vivekananda founds Ramakrishna Mission
1918-2008 CE
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
1919 CE
Gandhi’s Rowlatt satyagraha
1920-22 CE
Gandhi’s non-cooperation campaign
1923 CE
Vinayak Damodar Savarkar’s Hindutva: Who is a Hindu?
1927 CE
Ambedkar leads Dalit protest at Chavadar Lake
1931-1990 CE
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho)
1930 CE
Gandhi leads Salt satyagraha
1932 CE
Gandhi-Ambedkar pact reserves seats for Untouchables
1948 CE
(January 30) Gandhi assassinated
1956 CE
Ambedkar and many Dalit followers convert to Buddhism
1960’s CE
Hinduism and Yoga popularized in the West
1961 CE
Dowry Prohibition Act
1970 CE -
Diaspora Hindus come to the US and Europe
1971 CE
Tamil Nadu government decrees Sanskrit not sole language of liturgy
1992 CE (Dec. 6)
Destruction of the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya
1996 CE
Kancha Ilaiah’s Why I am Not a Hindu
2002 CE
Hindu-Muslim riots in Gujarat
2007 CE
Hindutva groups challenge construction of Sethusamudram shipping canal
2010 CE
Allahabad Court rules that the Ayodhya site should be divided in three
2011 CE
Indian Supreme court stays the Allahabad Court’s ruling on Ayodhya
from the book "On Hinduism" by Wendy Doniger
|