The Nirmukta Freethought Community

apologies if its a repost but i didnt find another mention

via http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/...108579.cms
wtf is going on in iitb? this paper from their chem dept wasnt published in any chemistry journal but instead in a homeopathy journal.
link to the paper found via google. i dont have any idea about the scientific principles behind their analysis so i cant figure out how much of it is bs. maybe you guys can take a look?
it looks like they were testing samples of 'medicines' from the market and found the concentration of the materials were the same in solutions of 6C(where it is physically possible that the original material exists in the solution) to 200C(where its not possible). now im no expert but it seems like the manufacturers of these medicines maybe lying about the efficacy of their products and the concentration.

I think this came up on the facebook group. I'd say the amount of stupidity in that study is inversely proportional to the potency of a homeopathic medication.

Here is a detailed take on the study.

A briefer take on it.

(30-01-2011 01:03 AM)eolgon Wrote:  it looks like they were testing samples of 'medicines' from the market and found the concentration of the materials were the same in solutions of 6C(where it is physically possible that the original material exists in the solution) to 200C(where its not possible). now im no expert but it seems like the manufacturers of these medicines maybe lying about the efficacy of their products and the concentration.

Or perhaps all detected molecules of 'active' ingredient are impurities in the water used by the manufacturers.

(30-01-2011 03:36 AM)Lije Wrote:  I think this came up on the facebook group. I'd say the amount of stupidity in that study is inversely proportional to the potency of a homeopathic medication.

Here is a detailed take on the study.

A briefer take on it.

'quantum nanotechnology'
thanks for the links, should have checked scienceblogs first
the worst part is the iits are supposed to be the premier institutes in the country, you would think someone there wouldve taught them better/knocked sense into the authors.

(30-01-2011 10:40 AM)Ajita Kamal Wrote:  Or perhaps all detected molecules of 'active' ingredient are impurities in the water used by the manufacturers.

basically any reasonable explanation rather than their nanotech one

Homeopathy is completely stupid.

Ayurveda may have some use, the ingredients may contain previously unknown medicinally useful chemicals.

There are no economic incentives for traditional pharmaceutical companies to conduct research in the area (prior art would mean the wouldn't be able to take advantage of intellectual property protection) so perhaps IIT-B's work can prove of some use.

(01-02-2011 10:49 AM)Karma Wrote:  Homeopathy is completely stupid.

Ayurveda may have some use, the ingredients may contain previously unknown medicinally useful chemicals.

There are no economic incentives for traditional pharmaceutical companies to conduct research in the area (prior art would mean the wouldn't be able to take advantage of intellectual property protection) so perhaps IIT-B's work can prove of some use.

Ayurveda is still primitive medicine and its a fallacy to think it has any use as compared to modern medicine.

(01-02-2011 10:49 AM)Karma Wrote:  There are no economic incentives for traditional pharmaceutical companies to conduct research in the area (prior art would mean the wouldn't be able to take advantage of intellectual property protection) so perhaps IIT-B's work can prove of some use.

the quackery that is ayurveda reasearch from iitb is the same as their homeopathy stuff. page1 page2

according to them the reason people arent too keen on gaining immortality & manipulating genes using ayurveda is because "Dosages are often large and bitter, and medicines need to be taken with specific anupan such as milk, honey, ghee at specific times.", among other things . make of it what you will but their obvious bias makes me wary about their agenda.

(01-02-2011 10:44 PM)eolgon Wrote:  the quackery that is ayurveda reasearch from iitb is the same as their homeopathy stuff. page1 page2

They start with a baseless assumption - that ayurvedic texts contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth:

Quote:There are descriptions in Ayurveda of experiments in Kayakalpa i.e. a total reversing of the ageing processes. Vruksha-ayurveda describes experiments on how to grow red, blue or yellow cotton which implies an ability to regulate genes for colour producing metabolites.

They make no attempt to separate fact from fantasy.

And then they want to reinvent the wheel:

Quote:This will require the development of a breakthrough process technology which will reduce the therapeutic dose by a factor of at least 100 or more. The medicines must also be fast acting, suitable for acute problems, and must work on major emerging health problems (diabetes, arthritis, Alzheimer's). In addition, systematic work needs to be done to establish chemical quality criteria for raw materials and finished drugs. Finally, there is an urgent need to develop a wide range of bioassays to assess the toxicity and efficacy of multi-herbal and herbo-mineral formulations.

There already is a process, called science-based-medicine, which does that.

And of course, the obligatory rant on "allopathy":

Quote:Modern medicine places greater emphasis on the curative over the preventive, and allopathic medicines do have specific performance problems. Apart from drug resistance, side effects and efficacy, major issues are cost and national capability�a fact that becomes significant in today's patent regime. This is something which should be of concern in designing an effective and affordable healthcare policy in a country like ours.

It is true that the healthcare system in India has a lot of problems, the biggest being the lack of accountability. But woo-based-medicine is not the solution for that. Policy change is.

(01-02-2011 11:50 PM)Lije Wrote:  It is true that the healthcare system in India has a lot of problems, the biggest being the lack of accountability. But woo-based-medicine is not the solution for that. Policy change is.

Love this post and this term "woo-based-medicine". Gotta use this term often.