moderation open thread
(09-Jul-2013, 01:18 PM)Sooty Wrote: Fair enough. But does that mean that my question about language elitism just gets ignored because it is difficult one to administer?

I am not sure I completely get your query.

If you are asking about "how to discuss about a group rule", then this is the right place.
If you are asking about "how to discuss group rules in FB", then that is not allowed for reasons already provided by Lije.

If you are asking for the rationale behind English then the main factor to be understood is that Nirmukta FB groups are meant for discussions. Being inclusive in a discussion forum means ensuring that a thread is open for participation to everybody. Now English is the only language that can ensure something like this. And given that a Nirmukta FB user is highly unlikely to not know English, it makes all the more sense.

It is true that members might be more comfortable in other languages, but that is the price to be paid for being inclusive in a diverse group like Nirmukta. And given that its a freethinkers group for discussions, a person's argument's merit is not that much based on her language skills.

(09-Jul-2013, 01:18 PM)Sooty Wrote: Also, I ask that a link be put right in when such issues arise - in the case that I mention, I was repeatedly told this is not the right place - I get that, OK, but when I asked repeatedly where I ought to go, I didn't get an answer for quite a while. Pasting a link right then and there would solve it because when I ask where to go look, telling me 'Go look' is no solution.

Its really not possible to post the link every time for multiple users as its not a productive way. It is also a good way to ensure that all members read the group rules thoroughly, as well as a pointer whether a member has read the rules: a basic requirement for membership to the groups.

But in this case, the about section turned out to be out of sync and it was indeed difficult to find the links. Thanks for pointing that out and the issue will be rectified as soon as possible.
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Sad 
My enquiry is about the banning of Arunaday Gupta on Facebook's Indian Atheist Debate Corner.
Your list of Debate rules says://2. Avoid personal attacks against individuals but practice criticism of ideas//
Arunaday Gupta has Posted comments as a reply to the post // Hindustan ka Muslim Jaag Raha hai"// by Zakir Abbasi.
Arunaday's commnt was rational of which Zakir didn't had answers. Zakir looks as if suffered Ad-hominem, But Arunaday hold the rationality. Slowly the dialogue shifted between Admin Kanad Kanhare and Arunaday, in which Arunaday criticised Islam.
Arunaday criticized Islam(Idea/Ideology) not Muslims(generalizing the follower)
Sp My question is:
What was the basis of his banning?
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(20-Jul-2013, 03:17 PM)shirishkirtiwar Wrote: My enquiry is about the banning of Arunaday Gupta on Facebook's Indian Atheist Debate Corner.
Your list of Debate rules says://2. Avoid personal attacks against individuals but practice criticism of ideas//
Arunaday Gupta has Posted comments as a reply to the post // Hindustan ka Muslim Jaag Raha hai"// by Zakir Abbasi.
Arunaday's commnt was rational of which Zakir didn't had answers. Zakir looks as if suffered Ad-hominem, But Arunaday hold the rationality. Slowly the dialogue shifted between Admin Kanad Kanhare and Arunaday, in which Arunaday criticised Islam.
Arunaday criticized Islam(Idea/Ideology) not Muslims(generalizing the follower)
Sp My question is:
What was the basis of his banning?

The reason was mentioned when Arunaday was banned. Copy pasting that comment here
Kanad Kanhere Wrote:Banned Arunaday Gupta for agenda trolling

He wasn't banned for personal attacks or anything of that sort. He was banned for derailing every thread towards how "Islam is the most vile religion and the biggest threat to humanity". He was also given education as well as warnings to not do this.

You might want to read Nirmukta's guide on trolls to understand what is trolling.
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Moderators,

I wish to bring forth a case that has recently occurred with me in the facebook group, Indian Atheists. The moderator Mr Kanad Kanhere has flagged my comment in the topic as bigoted and has warned me that this is last one. I wish to contest this warning, as I find the verdict ,ARBITRARY and UNJUSTIFIED.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/IndianAt...p_activity

As you all can see, the first comment of this topic started as follows:

//Look at this ass-licking moron..Apparently he's an atheist but loves to suck up to Islamists.//
This was about a Hindutva video which read that Mr Mahesh bhatt was inciting Muslims to wage Jihad against the Hindus

My statements that I posted was in response to the above sentence.

///He ain't calling for jihad, but he surely favors his new found community. After all he is a convert!///
///But his coming out in support for Zakir Naik makes my stomach retch!///

After this comment Mr Kanad Kanhere flagged my comment as bigoted against converts. Now I wish to point out the following statement Mr Kanad wrote:

//Now consider your sentence. It is generalizing to converts. And the sentence implied that they are more protective (also could be read as more fanatic) about their new found religion. Given the fact that converts are already shamed in our society, your demeaning generalization is a bigoted sentence.//

I am surprised that the first post which was obviously demeaning, especially ass-licking and moron was not flagged by Mr Kanad as ableist slur. As you can see in the topic, a member had to point out this matter to Mr Kanad, after which he accepted his mistake. But what surprises me is the swiftness with which Mr Kanhere flagged my comment without second thought.

Secondly, the basis of my statement was genuine. after all he is a convert. Obviously any convert who finds a new religion and a new religious community will fight for it's minority rights.

Here is another statement where I defended my opinion.

/// ///"converts do such an such act"///................No, What my statement says is that because he is a convert ,he supports his community, NOT OTHER CONVERTS MIND YOU!......And neither did I say that he supported jihad against Hindus.Clearly a bigot Hindu would have said the former. So how can you presume that this is a bigoted statement. I need the opinion of other admins please! I will accept whatever it maybe......///

Moderators I wish to point out a video in which Cat Stevens(Yusuf Islam) supports Salman Rushdie's death sentence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYnWtPytvhI

Now I will be post a statement for this video.

He(Cat stevens) surely favors his new found community and he surely favors death sentence, after all he is convert to Islam.
Now please Moderators I wish to know, is the above statement BIGOTED and biased against converts...No, I doubt it is so....

I would like other moderators than Mr Kanad Kanhere to speak on this. I have unfortunately lost my trust on Mr Kanad's judgement. Whatever your decisions, I will accept.
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@ravi261,

Kanad and I discussed and on a second thought we don't find your find your "After all he is a convert" statement as bigoted. So that was a moderation mistake.

At the same time, I don't see what relevance the slur part has. Sometimes the admins miss pointing out such things. In this case another member pointed it out, the admin thanked him and that was that. But if you are implying that an admin has selectively targeted you, I'd say that's a tall claim and I don't see a good reason to take it seriously.
[+] 2 users Like Lije's post
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//But if you are implying that an admin has selectively targeted you, I'd say that's a tall claim and I don't see a good reason to take it seriously.//

Thank you I am relieved by the verdict given. As far as accusation against a moderator, I believe I overstepped myself. It was not my intention.
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Dear Moderators, Kanad, Lije,
Well, it's been a month since I was banned from the forum, for the bigoted comment I made. But following that, I spent quite some time on other forums, and I must admit, the quality of discussions is nowhere close to what it is in the Nirmukta forums. And perhaps the strict moderation IS the key. Having said that, I sincerely apologize for my previous comments on this thread.
The unwanted comment I made, was the first, and I will ensure it will be my last.
I beseech you, respected moderators, to kindly revoke my ban, on facebook.
My Profile: Shashank Sripad
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(10-Aug-2013, 02:21 AM)shashank Wrote: Dear Moderators, Kanad, Lije,
Well, it's been a month since I was banned from the forum, for the bigoted comment I made. But following that, I spent quite some time on other forums, and I must admit, the quality of discussions is nowhere close to what it is in the Nirmukta forums. And perhaps the strict moderation IS the key. Having said that, I sincerely apologize for my previous comments on this thread.
The unwanted comment I made, was the first, and I will ensure it will be my last.
I beseech you, respected moderators, to kindly revoke my ban, on facebook.
My Profile: Shashank Sripad

I have unbanned you from the IADC FB group. But I can't see you as a member there yet. Probably you need to send a join request again.

Thanks
Kanad
[+] 1 user Likes Kanad Kanhere's post
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What world Am i in. This is worst than any religious group.
You can't argue with ADMIN's if they dont like your opinions they ban you. Seems like a propaganda group.
I have seen many people in this group posting they were banned for expressing their views Never thought it was completely true Until it happened to me today.
I am Manan Mishra.
Banned
[Mod note: Image removed. Please blank user names (or) get permission from the user when posting screencaps from facebook]
https://www.facebook.com/groups/IndianAt...303875671/
Personally Why I Don't follow hinduism?
Because I don't like rituals and festivals.
I thought Atheist don't get offended easily and give high importance to freedom of speech which is not the case with this group. This group is Authoritative.
But hey wait am I stereotyping Atheists, this is Indian Atheist group.
In this group you simply can't say anything against islam with a hindu name or else you will be seen as Hater unless you say hinduism is stupid which is what i say.

I don't ask to be unbanned as i wont be visiting that group... just want to show this.
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Dear Moderators,
I have been asked, not warned and I appreciate it, by Mr Jude the following:

"Words like lame, dumb, retard are ablest slurs by definition and have been historically used as insults to denigrate. Now Anoop Saxena uses one "dumb". Please edit your posts."

"My post is the following:

2.) You are defining the attributes for it.
Eg: Two stones hurling towards each other are dumb to not know it will hurt them but intelligent to know how to act in gravity!"

I have not used a Slur since a slur is against "someone". I have not called anyone Dumb! I have been asked to edit the post.

Please advice.

Thanks,
Anoop Saxena

P.S. - I hope I got to the right forum and right mode of questioning the moderation.
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No it doesn't have to be directly against someone specific.
If it's just profanity, you are directly attacking a person. In case of slurs, you are attacking and harming an entire community. Your quote for example assumes that being 'dumb' implies lack of intelligence. You are endorsing a harmful stereotype, thus you are causing harm to an entire group affected by the stereotype. Please edit your comments and desist from repeating the same.
Also read: http://nirmukta.net/Thread-On-profanity-...censorship
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(02-Nov-2013, 06:54 PM)LMC Wrote: Your quote for example assumes that being 'dumb' implies lack of intelligence. You are endorsing a harmful stereotype, thus you are causing harm to an entire group affected by the stereotype. Please edit your comments and desist from repeating the same.
Also read: http://nirmukta.net/Thread-On-profanity-...censorship

Question -- I call a stone "dumb". And that is a "stereotype"? Is my understanding correct?

The following is my entire comment:
===
1.) You are defining "consciousness" (That is fine, its your theory)
2.) You are defining the attributes for it.
Eg: Two stones hurling towards each other are dumb to not know it will hurt them but intelligent to know how to act in gravity!
3.) You are making your own rules and breaking them!
===

"Neither in spirit, nor in language" have I slurred!

Anoop
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