moderation open thread
#85
None of your arguments were ever nuanced enough, ever thought through enough and you were warned several times, and you were told the reason for your ban, this forum is not a place for you to appeal and feel good for yourself, MOT is supposed to be a place so that members can get a better understanding of rules and their need, for challenging a mod action or for appealing for reinstatement, you can email moderators@nirmukta.com

Quote:Before my ban, I had been the most active member on Bengaluru Freethinkers. I had interacted extensively with LMC and Kanad, so I'm sure they can give me an answer without much research.
You were not the most active member in the bengaluru group, you joined around the time when admins happened to be inactive for personal/professional reasons, when sexist posts and 'chilly climate' in the group and denial of importance of online activism had driven away, more active and nirmukta-worthy members
Your activities involved, picking on a contrarian position, picking on it strongly enough and passionately enough while at the sametime absolving yourself from repercussions of picking on the position by claiming that you have no inclination to it and are just in the group for 'education'.
Claiming to be there for education and asking others to refine your position when you directly rejective suni's proposal to refine your position into premise and conclusion, asking him to do your work for you, asking us to do your research for you, searching and trying to quote mine for words from research papers while failing at that because the quotes were rather contradictory to the position you held, doing that repeatedly, without accepting, ever when the links you used turned out to be against the position you held.

Quote:to inform people why they have been banned (especially those who had made significant contributions to the community)
You were informed, and no I don't see how your contributions were significant, I only find them passionately disruptive, honestly I don't doubt your sincerity to be a feminist, I just have a problem with how difficult it is to get a simple argument through you as compared to other members of the group, and how much waste of time it turns out to be when you simply shift to some other argument.

Combined strength of our admins is totally incapable to get through you and we have tried long and hard, but ofcourse some members are thicker to get through than others, but it is that combined with your passion for trying to change our position to what perhaps you view to be best for nirmukta(which is why I don't doubt doubt your sincerity BTW) position that is not feminist by any means, all the while claiming that you don't hold that position, and doing all this while trying to act is if you are doing this just for education.

Quote:To foster an inclusive community where feminists of various persuasions can have a dialog
There's a lot of arguments among the admins themselves, regarding various topics, feminism is all about inclusion, all about intersectionality, but your dialogues do not belong to our groups.

Ironically it is your passion to "improve" nirmukta that makes your membership untenable in our groups,
Sorry for that, but you are just too passionately disruptive, for our currently less active admin team to mitigate in our groups and too thick for all of us to get through.
The adria's thread, of direct victim blaming was ofcourse just a 'trigger' and the reason for your removal at that time
There is really no use for you to be posting here are asking us to educate, group will not be pawned so that an individual member can be educated, that too when even successful education attempts turn out to be useless, since the passion for what you think nirmukta should be, what we think nirmukta definitely should not be , is just too strong and diminishes every other attempt.

Posting these revisionist replies here, distorting the facts are definitely not helping your cause.
Moderators will reply to the email you have sent, when they feel the need to, till then, you can use google, follow our blog, you can read stuff on internet, comment on random public spaces, to change our opinion, interact with people, with pages.
If my experience with you is anything to go by, personally I don't think you can be ever be added back, you can prove me wrong though, just go read stuff, interact with people (not me I am totally burnt out with you) , stop wasting our time.
It's just sad that someone that passionate had to come out to be somehow convinced (so wrongly) about what atheism and feminists should be doing, who should nirmukta ban, who they shouldn't , and be so thick for all of us to get through.
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#86
Dear Kanad,


with reference to

http://nirmukta.net/Thread-Science-and-r...47#pid8247 and http://nirmukta.net/Thread-Science-and-r...47#pid8247


May I take this as that I should not answer what Captain Mandrake asked me about?

Why Captain Madrake is not being guided not to shift the topic by his question answers to which lead to what you call not sticking to OP?


Please guide and ban not immediately.
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#87
Dear kanad,

Also without offering any explanation or guidance on

//Did I at any point touch the topic over and above what you talked about or Captain asked me (ground for religion etc)? References to evidence and religion are inevitable and are to the extent which the OP and your own comment/reply requires. If you let me know specifically, irrelevant references over and above the OP, if any, I will avoid the same.//

Kanad kanhere warned me to stick to OP for which I am not responsible. Why?

Answers to above may help me know rules and regulations at Nirmukta better so that I can implement them in spirit and word.

Waiting for answers.
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#88
Your constant reference to Atheism in a thread that had nothing to do with it. Your post like this in response to this question, and your history of diverting every argument towards Vedanta, is what earned you a warning.

When the thread is about Science and realism, do not bring in other irrelevant vectors.

Regards
Kanad
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#89
Dear Kanad,

1. Do you mean Atheism is immune from Science and Realism totally? On this Nirmukta site can any post be totally immune from any remote reference to the Atheism? If yes majority of posts would render themselves irrelevant by virtue of their being on this site. But that is not the case. Then why it is about my thread?

2. Clearly I earned warning for a post on Vedanta and not for bringing atheism and for which somebody else is TOTALLY responsible as pointed out by me. For question of some body else you gave me the warning. Does there exist any explanation for this?

3. I am still waiting for your clarification whether or not I should proceed to respond to questions by Captain Madrake, and the resultant diversion will have nothing to do with me.
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#90
(29-May-2013, 08:16 AM)ramesh Wrote: Dear Kanad,

1. Do you mean Atheism is immune from Science and Realism totally? On this Nirmukta site can any post be totally immune from any remote reference to the Atheism? If yes majority of posts would render themselves irrelevant by virtue of their being on this site. But that is not the case. Then why it is about my thread?

2. Clearly I earned warning for a post on Vedanta and not for bringing atheism and for which somebody else is TOTALLY responsible as pointed out by me. For question of some body else you gave me the warning. Does there exist any explanation for this?

Now your are trolling in the MOT. You clearly asking for getting banned. Stop commenting absurdly and follow basic discussion principles. Stick to the OP.

(29-May-2013, 08:16 AM)ramesh Wrote: 3. I am still waiting for your clarification whether or not I should proceed to respond to questions by Captain Madrake, and the resultant diversion will have nothing to do with me.

Captain Mandrake has started this thread for you to continue the discussion about Vedanta there.
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#91
Dear Kanad,

Recently Liferdtrip commented like this here http://nirmukta.net/Thread-Does-religion...54#pid8254

//Proponents of this ideal of religious code of conduct, as far as i have seen do not indulge in experiements, observation, replication, scientific methods which are essential to science and its realism.//

Now in which thread should I respond to him either in the parent thread or 'science and realism'? I already replied in the parent thread and stand apologized if that was a mistake on my part..

What I am supposed to do in such cases? (You did not guide me in earlier cases until and unless Captain started a new thread.)

Please guide.
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#92
(30-May-2013, 09:17 AM)ramesh Wrote: Dear Kanad,

Recently Liferdtrip commented like this here http://nirmukta.net/Thread-Does-religion...54#pid8254

//Proponents of this ideal of religious code of conduct, as far as i have seen do not indulge in experiements, observation, replication, scientific methods which are essential to science and its realism.//

Now in which thread should I respond to him either in the parent thread or 'science and realism'? I already replied in the parent thread and stand apologized if that was a mistake on my part..

What I am supposed to do in such cases? (You did not guide me in earlier cases until and unless Captain started a new thread.)

Please guide.

I am not a moderator but I have (hope that is ok) given you some guidance (link below) on how to stick to the topic and not wander about in irrelevant tangents. Hope this helps.


http://nirmukta.net/Thread-Does-religion...65#pid8265
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#93
Heart 
Hello,
I have not been able to like or comment on Indian atheist FB page. Is this the right place to ask about it?
If yes, can I please know the reason behind this?
I remember to have commented on the Slut walk poster. I said I did not agree, with it. Has that resulted in this action?
All above are sincere questions. I just want to understand what is acceptable and what is not.
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#94
(07-Jun-2013, 04:10 PM)surajzakaas Wrote: Hello,
I have not been able to like or comment on Indian atheist FB page. Is this the right place to ask about it?
If yes, can I please know the reason behind this?
I remember to have commented on the Slut walk poster. I said I did not agree, with it. Has that resulted in this action?
All above are sincere questions. I just want to understand what is acceptable and what is not.

What was it that you said exactly?The point of slutwalks is not about dressing like "sluts", but about questioning the idiotic notion of labeling women as sluts for the way they dress. So if you had said something about how dressing like "that" wouldn't help the cause of women, well, that would be sexist and a good enough reason as to delete your comment and ban you from commenting. We have little tolerance for sexist views as explained here.
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#95
I did not say how women should dress. If I had, that would have made me a sexist. I only mentioned my doubts on whether such walks will bring any change. I am sorry if have written that I was affirmative that these walks were bad. I can't remember the exact words now. \\skepticism\\
So, if I think that slut walks are not going to work, that makes me sexist?
Tomorrow if I say 'i believe hug an atheist day won't be a good idea'; will I be branded theist?
I was not trolling, just putting my sincere opinion.
I accept that commenting there was not appropriate, considering you were supporting it through the page. But at that time I did not know that there was a separate debate page.
Also, you did not give me any warning before banning me. But that is your decision.
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#96
Ok well thanks for choosing proper channel to post.

Is this the post, right?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1...0450843372

There's a hidden comment saying:
Quote:So girls dressed provocatively are going to march for their 'freedom, equality'?
I don't think that helps a lot
"
This is yours, right?
I see that first of all that, freedom and equality are in scare quotes, why is that? when you comment on a page, there is no way to distinguish you from a sexist troll and someone who only wanted to discuss use of the movements which we keep getting and we cannot have any tolerance for.
And this comment sounds like those, it reeks of disagreement with 'proactive' clothing, and it reeks of a sentiment that women who dress proactively should not then demand equality(equality being in scare quotes)

And it ultimately reeks of privilege where a man comes up and is telling feminists how to run their movement, which is already a huge problem, this along with the fact that we do not know you.
On pages we rarely give warning, on groups we do, it's of no use on pages, pages are public, you can still follow them, just that if your comments are of the type which seem harmful, dissuading to people, banning makes sure that the person does not add more such comments, you can still comment anywhere on facebook.

I'll check with other admins if we can remove this ban, what you can do meanwhile is to make your stance clear.
Do you understand that you are in no position to inform them how to run their movement?
In actions that perhaps seem harmless to you, you are perpetuating the same problem this walk is all about, men telling women what to do, what is good for them, even when you say you are genuinely interested in discussing why it is useful, phrase your sentences properly, and read, and listen, before commenting there is a lot of material out there, this question has been answered a zillion times, and yet again men seem to bump in and ask the question again, and in most cases, disagree and retort when replied to ultimately trying to push their opinion on the movement, in my experience atleast, none of the self proclaimed genuinely interested people have come out to be genuinely interested, they happen to be always more interested in pushing their opinion and come out as agenda trolls.

That group has answered this question a zillion times, and they will make assumptions about you based on how you phrase the question, if your language comes out to be that of a troll, initial comments will be reacting that way, we cannot demand infinite patience from others while not taking proper steps from our side to be tactful enough, given the situation that most people asking this question this way ultimately turn out to be misogynist troll, given the situation that a lot of men feel their power to inform feminist movement what is good for them and how they should run their movement, and given the situation that most of them act thanklessly to patient replies and seem more interested in peddling their opinion, your actions must always be in accordance with the situation.

I am attaching a FAQ of kolkata slutwalk, which this poster was about, also check out the kolkata slutwalk group you can ask your questions there, remember to phrase questions carefully.

A quote from the doc:

Is this a feminist movement?
Quote:Feminism and Slut Walk have a complicated relationship. Several feminists have been against the movement from the beginning and a lot of them (like the Goddess Germaine Greer) have pledged solidarity with the Walk. A lot of Slut Walkers themselves do not relate to/understand/agree with the “feminist” label. For these reasons, we do not call Slut Walk Kolkata a feminist movement. At the same time, many of the people closely involved with the Slut Walk movement in Kolkata identify strongly as feminists. As a group, Slut Walk Kolkata very much acknowledges the contributions made by the Feminist movement in the country and abroad. Without these contributions and struggles, perhaps we wouldn’t have the space to have a movement like Slut Walk at all!

As you can see, there is a lot of debates within the feminist movements about the efficacy of the movement, and there is a lot to discuss and debate, but how we ask about it's efficacy matters.
Here is are a few links critiquing slut walk
http://www.feministfrequency.com/2011/05...-slutwalk/
As you will find out, critiques are not about movement as a whole but more about the way they are being implemented, specially when white, privileged men try to take control of the movement ignoring the issues of women of color.There are similar problems regarding LGBT inclusivity.

And here are a few links that explain why we need it:
http://jessicavalenti.tumblr.com/post/54...n-comments
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/liam-mcl...93186.html
The attached FAQ also answers this wrt Indian movement.

Also remember that this is the MOT thread, not a general discussion thread, I've given you links to read and groups to go to, remember to not debate the issue here further, start a new thread if you have to, in this thread, reply only to the moderation.

If you understand why such blank comments are a problem you can apologize and give an assurance that you will not make them as carelessly again if you absolutely have to, otherwise start with reading and listening before commenting, ask questions before giving an opinion in the private space, on your personal, group or wall, you can pace your opinions, in the private space of our groups and pages, place your opinions carefully and with accordance to the situation and the fucked up world we live in.

Also regarding the hug an atheist day analogy, unlike hug an atheist day, this is not our movement, in this movement, we can only be an ally, we must never try to lead or dictate.


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